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 Post subject: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:42 pm 
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I'm not sure if a bureaucrat will gather any attention from you guys, but hey! Why not?

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 8:05 am 
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Did you know you were going to lose your arm or did she just slice and dice on the arm at a moments notice.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:47 pm 
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What I'm interested in is if the goal to prevent other clans from making deals with the Crane was actually a faction goal for the Imperials.

I noticed that the Spider wanted to achieve a goal by means of a treaty with the Crane or the Otomo and went back and forth several times with the Crane eventually outbidding the Otomo. Afterwards, I didn't see any common ground between the Imperials and the Spider (safe for a training offer for Kurogane's kid and the Seppun/Tsi/Gyushi decision that the Regent came up with).

Did the Otomo not sign treaties with any other clan who also made agreements with the Crane? Or was the Spider singled out on this?

Sorry for not asking Koji questions, but apart from the committees and his quarrel with Doji Soken I didn't see much of him, because I was focused on the Spider delegation.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:14 pm 
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My brother and I discussed the committees early on and quickly came to the conclusion that "recommendations by the subpanel to the assistant co-chair of committee affairs" type deal was going on. I'm glad the Otomo didn't disappoint.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:19 am 
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1. I'm the one who asked about the whole arm-cutting deal. My arm wasn't even supposed to be stuck. It was more lile : you're stuck and it will take tome to clear the rubbles. I asked itlf it was okay if only my arm was stuck, so a quick strike would set me free.

They approved the idea and Seppun Yukiko rolled with it.

2. Our exact goal was prevent the Cranes from making any deals with anyone. An impossible task. One of the reason our relationship was difficult after your deal with the crane is because you pissed most of the delegation off by taking the other deal instead of ours. You could have at least try to see if we were willing to top the crane'a offer...and we would have, trust me, instead of backstabbing us.

We were supposed to be close after all, and you went and make a deal with a clan openly trying to discredit us.

3. I don't mind at all being ask questions not about Koji. It's actually perfect. One of my personal goal was to stay as anonymous as possible.

4. Glad I was able to fulfill your expectations. I was the quintessial bureaucrat statswise.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:38 am 
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And yes, we also gave to cold shoulder to the Mantis and the Scorpion ( although our relation with the latter is complicated)

And the Unicorn tried to ignore us all WC. I think it's because mots people thought we were traditionalists while we were, in fact, neutral. We started 50/50.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:46 am 
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I'm sorry that I never got to approach you for a game of Kemari. Those rumors were -golden-, and I expecte dthe Imperials to host a game of it at some point where I hoped to be on your team!

So sad.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:56 am 
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Tetsuhiko wrote:
2. Our exact goal was prevent the Cranes from making any deals with anyone. An impossible task. One of the reason our relationship was difficult after your deal with the crane is because you pissed most of the delegation off by taking the other deal instead of ours. You could have at least try to see if we were willing to top the crane'a offer...and we would have, trust me, instead of backstabbing us.

We were supposed to be close after all, and you went and make a deal with a clan openly trying to discredit us.


Actually, we "betrayed" you because we were pretty sure you would not keep any promise. Otosan Uchi that who were supposed to bring before the Dais? Postponed, again and again. The Spiritual Conclave, supposedly to help with the Dark Fortunes' problem? A joke, where Shinzai's intents were clearly to ignore absolutely everything that was told to her. The whole "we are allies, but never talk about this to anyone ever"? Sounded like the best way to discard us as soon as you would have gotten yourself a better deal.

While, on the other hand, the Crane was actually willing to offer stuff, right now, no delay, no hidden agenda.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:02 pm 
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Ceithir wrote:
Tetsuhiko wrote:
2. Our exact goal was prevent the Cranes from making any deals with anyone. An impossible task. One of the reason our relationship was difficult after your deal with the crane is because you pissed most of the delegation off by taking the other deal instead of ours. You could have at least try to see if we were willing to top the crane'a offer...and we would have, trust me, instead of backstabbing us.

We were supposed to be close after all, and you went and make a deal with a clan openly trying to discredit us.


Actually, we "betrayed" you because we were pretty sure you would not keep any promise. Otosan Uchi that who were supposed to bring before the Dais? Postponed, again and again. The Spiritual Conclave, supposedly to help with the Dark Fortunes' problem? A joke, where Shinzai's intents were clearly to ignore absolutely everything that was told to her. The whole "we are allies, but never talk about this to anyone ever"? Sounded like the best way to discard us as soon as you would have gotten yourself a better deal.

While, on the other hand, the Crane was actually willing to offer stuff, right now, no delay, no hidden agenda.


Also, the Crane Clan found what Naishi held most valued in her existence and personally offered it to her. Though, again, had I not been kidnapped, there would have been the frank discussion of "Once the Heir is announced, you do know that this 'Alliance' is over, and we will personally help you take them apart, right? Provided you actually give us publicly what we need."

It was meant to be a risky power play.

And then I got kidnapped.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:04 pm 
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sndwurks wrote:
Also, the Crane Clan found what Naishi held most valued in her existence and personally offered it to her.


Which was?


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:14 pm 
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Ceithir wrote:
sndwurks wrote:
Also, the Crane Clan found what Naishi held most valued in her existence and personally offered it to her.


Which was?

Keeping her son away from the Colonies and safe from the Taint.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:22 pm 
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kakita_shiro wrote:
Ceithir wrote:
sndwurks wrote:
Also, the Crane Clan found what Naishi held most valued in her existence and personally offered it to her.


Which was?

Keeping her son away from the Colonies and safe from the Taint.


Also, safe from the Kolat.

But yeah. Nori was Naishi's giant weakness, and Crane (through Ichigiku) exploited it. And when that fell apart after the Progressive petition (Day 22), I was able to get him fostered off the Dragon to the same effect. And then got kidnapped before I could patch that back up. Still, it casts the narrative of the Spider as being more grumpy at the Otomo in the long run, and wanting to get them a little more desperate before we go back to being their friends.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Shame he went to th e Dragon! Aimi had a spot in her dojo reserved for a Spider kid.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:56 pm 
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Before I answer anything, let me tell you I'm a Spider at heart. I play Monksai since Monksai existed...and goblins. You can't have too much goblin. I originally wanted to be a SPider this WC, but I got my second choice as imperial instead. I therefore have a different view of these events than you, having access to our private forum.

Now, that being said, I believe it is a case of the Spider misreading the Imperials.

Ceithir wrote:
Tetsuhiko wrote:
2. Our exact goal was prevent the Cranes from making any deals with anyone. An impossible task. One of the reason our relationship was difficult after your deal with the crane is because you pissed most of the delegation off by taking the other deal instead of ours. You could have at least try to see if we were willing to top the crane'a offer...and we would have, trust me, instead of backstabbing us.

We were supposed to be close after all, and you went and make a deal with a clan openly trying to discredit us.


Actually, we "betrayed" you because we were pretty sure you would not keep any promise. Otosan Uchi that who were supposed to bring before the Dais? Postponed, again and again. The Spiritual Conclave, supposedly to help with the Dark Fortunes' problem? A joke, where Shinzai's intents were clearly to ignore absolutely everything that was told to her. The whole "we are allies, but never talk about this to anyone ever"? Sounded like the best way to discard us as soon as you would have gotten yourself a better deal.

While, on the other hand, the Crane was actually willing to offer stuff, right now, no delay, no hidden agenda.



The vast majority of the imperial delegation was completly behind the Otosan Uchi project. You were basically saying you could bring back one of the most powerful symbol of the greatness of the IMperial Families back. The delays can be explained by us looking for support among the great clans, something we were really clear about right at the beginning. Going on the dais without massive support was suicide, and you basically ended up doing that. We actually managed to get the Crab on our side when you blew everything by siding with the Crane. The Phoenix and the Unicorn would have been easy after that.

However, the deal was: we support the reconstruction and your 50 years ''stewardship'', and you make the Crane's life a living hell. Of course the deal was off the second you presented an alliance...

Even so, when you did present it on the dais, we tried to help you indirectly. We gave you three directives that should be followed, then basically said that if you were okay with them, we would listen and support you. The crane meanwhile? They ran away screaming about witches.

About the Conclave, I had a lot of things on my plate, so I don't know all the details that occured there, but I reread the specific thread, and do not agree with your interpretation. Let me go bureaucratic:

Yotsu Shinzai wrote:
"Is it then the general consensus of this conclave that the worship of the Dark Fortunes is spiritually pure and without risk of spiritual corruption?"


Yotsu Shinzai wrote:
"As I said at the outset, their worship is not in question. That they may be worshiped has already been decided.



Yotsu Shinzai wrote:
"I am glad we can agree on what has been iterated at our last gathering. In summation of our last congregation we held no question that the Dark Fortunes, as powers of Jigoku, held sway over Ningen-do, able to touch the destinies of those they chose. Likewise, by virtue of the Divine Empress' edicts, they are not limited in worship only to the Spider Clan. However, as noted, there is a vast difference between acknowledgement and encouragement. It was, if my understanding is correct, the consensus of this noble gathering, that due to their unique nature, the worship of the Dark Fortunes was a delicate practice, one more suited to those of spiritual knowledge and experience."

"Those shugenja and monks who populate and serve the temples of the Dark Fortunes were those that we suggested be given free leave for such veneration. They may, on behalf of visiting penitents, offer prayers, but that the heimin and hinen should, in no way, be encouraged to seek out these powers. Though they bear no connection to the dark touch of Jigoku, and the pomulgation of its true horror, they likewise represent a path, if trodden haphazardly, that leads to spiritual and moral weakness. I do not say that they solely are represented by this path, but that the perils of their improper worship, are dire."


The last bit is more neutral, but she was on your side all that time. And contrarly to me, she ended up giving her recommandation to the Throne, on the dais. In essence, she said anyone can worship the fortunes, but must seek assistance to the spider sohei to do so. That's a big win for you.


To summarize, I thing you gave us intentions we never had. We started WC thinking we could get along. Both your daimyo are married to Imperials, one of them being Terumoto's brother. As the resident speech writer (yes, the majority of the imperial's speeches on the dais are from me), I have wrote one for Otosan Uchi when we thought we were in business and it wasn't something we could have handwaved easily.

It's too late now anyway. I really wished things would have happened differently though.

EDIT: Found my stillborn speech. It was supposed to be said by Demiyah, our delegation head.


Otomo Koji wrote:
''Esteemed Chancellor, honorable delegates of the Great Clans, the latest century was one of great turmoil. Ennemies from within and without, dangers from the past and new threats never seen before all tried to destroy our most beautiful and sacred Empire. But we prevailed. Through sacrifice and honor, we prevailed. We managed to safeguard our land given to us by the Heaven and the legacy of our ancestors. However, much has been lost in these fights.

As such, the possibility of reclaiming something that was so precious to us all is a wonderful event. Otosan Uchi, the great Imperial Capital for a millenia, was destroyed and tainted by the Lost, followers of Daigotsu in a time when they fought against the Imperial Throne. Their descendants, the Great Spider Clan, who now bows before the Empress and obey her will without questions like each and everyone of us, have studied to possibility of cleansing the holy city from its impurities.

Even if it's still only an hypothetical plan, the historical significance of rebuilding such a great city and living once more within its walls appeals to the Imperial Families, as should every single samurais. In the light of these considerations, the Imperial Families humbly ask the Empress for a way the Spider Clan can redeem the actions of their ancestors and repair what was once the center of the world.

If they are able to do so, the Empress, as well as her direct servants the Otomo, the Seppun and the Miya will be able to walk the halls of the Imperial Palace and live in the very heart of their ancestral lands. All clans would be welcome to join the efforts of rebuilding their respective quarters as well, so the glory could reflect on each of you.

However, this would only be possible in the event the Spider Clan's plan is feasible. Sparing no efforts, the Yotsu gladly offered their knowledge of the land and will oversee the efforts of the followers of Daigotsu. If and after this incredible feat of strength is accomplish, the Imperial Families will name the Spider Clan the stewards of the Otosan Uchi, so they can protect it in our name from the taint and make sure their efforts and those of the other great clans last for at least another millenia. ''

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:54 pm 
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I think the main breakdown in communication between the Spider and the Imperial Families was the hard line that we needed a formal recognition of an agreement before the dais where two Spider were given permanent positions in the Imperial Court.

That agreement had to be public and brought before the dais and approved in order to count.

We were told that you guys were up for playing ball, save for one piece: any agreement between us could not be public.

Then, there was a bit of confusion about us expecting the Imperial Families to bring the Otosan Uchi petition forward, which they did not. And I believe it had been mentioned at some point to others that we were anticipating that happening, and when it didn't...

There were some serious bad feelings in Camp Spider.

Now that I can see where all the pieces were on the board? It's a little more clear that this was a break down in communication on two key points (no public recognition of our agreement, leaving us to put forward the Otosan Uchi petition), with the Spider Clan choosing to throw its weight behind the Crane to try to score points for the Progressives and Shibatsu. We were also all under the impression that the Imperial Families were pro-Seiken.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:58 pm 
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Tetsuhiko wrote:
It's too late now anyway. I really wished things would have happened differently though.


There is a lot of that going around.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 4:09 am 
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Yeah. Poor communication, as much OOC as IC, killed a lot of good plots.

Another example: We deliberately placed Atsushi's duel during the imperial petition so most Crab will not be in court when Otosan Uchi was announced.

Except it was something else which was announced, and that plan backfired, because most members of our clan decided to snub this very petition to watch the duel instead, therefore insulting the imperials.


Otosan Uchi... could have been far greater. It is not a failure IC, but mostly because the Regent (a.k.a the GMs) took pity of us and granted us a slight hope for having dared present it. OOC, the presentation was a catastrophe.

To put things into perspective, it happened during the week of infinite stress.

First, it was at that point of court when the days were running by at an infinite speed. It was announced there will be no break until the end, and everyone was rushing to close their plots before the deadline.

Then we were deep engulfed into the Mori's incident, which was not resolved at all, and no one wanted to present a petition asking to clean our past mistakes while our current ones were still in the air.

Next, there were many, many confusions on what we could actually do for Otosan Uchi (Can we actually clean it? Still no idea right now), and what we should ask for before the Dais exactly.

And finally, some subplots erupted at that point stealing even more energy from us (Tsubaki, your arc was cool... but it was probably the worst moment ever to unfold it - your freaking duel was on the evening on the petition!).


So, yes, there were many mistakes done. One is clearly mine: I pushed for the petition to be up as soon as possible OOC (something like four IRL hours after the thread was created) because I wanted for people to have time enough to discuss it on the Dais. Except in doing so, I cut short some still ongoing threads which could have helped with it. I think we didn't check with the Dragon one last time for example! As a comparison, the other two petitions of that IC day were presented several OOC days later, so we actually had time.


But, despite all that, I think we were doomed to work with the Crane instead of the Otomo.

Because they had food.

Because they could help us a lot more in the Colonies.

And because your (NPC) boss was a jerk. Seriously, all other delegations' big ones had the decency to stay in their respective embassies. Yours was going around smirking all the time!


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:26 pm 
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sndwurks wrote:
We were also all under the impression that the Imperial Families were pro-Seiken.


That pretty much sums up our relationship with all clans...

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:37 pm 
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Tetsuhiko wrote:
That pretty much sums up our relationship with all clans...


Despite none of the Imperials saying a blind word one way or the other until, what, Day 23 or so?

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:55 pm 
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Tetsuhiko wrote:
sndwurks wrote:
We were also all under the impression that the Imperial Families were pro-Seiken.


That pretty much sums up our relationship with all clans...


Huh.

Off the top of my head, Ibu was a former Spider, her husband had Perserver Blood, one Miya was a black sheep who trained with the Unicorn because her family couldn't stand her, Yasarugi was getting married to a Mantis, and Kyosuta was openly embracing the study of Spider ideals.

Hisoka switched gears after "Kill the bureaucracy" became known I think, which left Dmeiyah, who was neutral, as the lone Traditional voice in the bunch.

To the point that they were hostile and extorting the *Lion*, who were their biggest supporters all court and actively helped themwhenever we could. Didn't matter, they were still -wildly- pro-Shibatsu.

I don't think that there was a Traditionalist in the bunch after Xmas, and probably for a few weeks before that.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV- Otomo Koji - Ask Me Anything
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:05 pm 
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Shiba Gunichi wrote:
Tetsuhiko wrote:
That pretty much sums up our relationship with all clans...


Despite none of the Imperials saying a blind word one way or the other until, what, Day 23 or so?


Adding to that, one of our goal was to completly silence the conflict between traditionalist and progressist. We weren't going to say anything about it ourselves. In addition, nobody actually asked us. They simply assumed. It was the main reason for the ideological debate as well. We had to keep it as far away as possible from the dais. And I'll probably brag a little by saying that, but I think I did my job quite well.

And I cannot speak for the other imperials, but a lot of them sided with shibatsu at the end, one with seiken as a take that to the Cranes, and Demiyah and I, maybe others, stayed 50/50.

I was screaming internally, giving away points to Seiken that could have gone to Shibatsu, but it didn't make any sense whatsoever for Koji, an anonymous bureaucrat, to take side.

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