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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:46 pm 
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Obsidian Magistrate
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I got told when I lost 14 points of honor, and Chikuma got told when she lost half a rank for kicking out Moshi D, but our gains?

No clue.

The stuff from the Dais I could follow, and Ten Deaths dropped me a line while watching Aimi and Aitoko in the Crab embassy (Just before Aitoko died!), but beyond that?

No idea.

Once we lost Inari, we were just ... invisible, I think.

I dunno.

We used to have such good relations with the GM corps, then everything just ... fell apart. I still don't know exactly what went on. Probably better that way, but... man, I just hope we didn't make anybody -angry- with us.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 8:02 pm 
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Well we are all humans and we can make mistakes. The WC 4 system is not perfect and we all know it. As for the gains mechanics , yeah I do concurr they had to be improved. As for the GMs , I also concurr and we did as a clan replied in our constructive critic of the Game, that some GMs have to much work on their shoulders and they should delegate more things in future events.

That it was a stressful game, it was. I was stressed like hell the last two weeks (along win Karyudo) because of Miaka, even when my posting was reduced drastically. In the last two week I nearly only replied Miaka's threads.

But in the end is a game. I think most of us are GMs for our local groups. When I see that my players are stressed, discussing between each other, or simply not having a good time, As I GM i always choose to stop the game for some weeks or months and let them calm themselves.

For a game as big as WC one good option was keep your distance from the game for some time like Atsushi did, or Asina (if I'm not mistaken).

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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:37 am 
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Question: What can you tell us about the genesis and development of the scoring system? Who came up with it? What was the reasoning for the specific weighting given to different aspects? (e.g. one objective being worth 50 points of Honour/Glory/whatever, Honour and Glory being weighted the same despite different Clans gaining different amounts of Honour for the same action, etc.) What changes, if any, did it go through during the event?

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As for the rest, I am of the opinion that the Otomo must be destroyed.

Player of Asahina Umeko at Winter Court IV


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:15 pm 
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Obsidian Magistrate
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Quote:
Something most people learned near the end of January. After two whole months of not reporting anything.


I made an OOC comment to the larger boards not long after telling the Crab to self-report. Also, the explanation for the game was laid out at the start by telling players that their gains would matter. Aside from it being deliberately stated, it should have been intuitive to keep track of your gains (and losses).

[Edit: I just noticed that Bars just posted the exact comments]
Quote:
December 10th Shi-Tien Yen Wang posted: http://wintercourt.l5r.com/viewtopic.ph ... =30#p73444

Determining XP Bonuses:
The GMs are watching your threads. We will pick out ones that stand out. In addition, players are HIGHLY ENCOURAGED to suggest threads for gain. Send any thread you see that you are in (or wish to nominate someone else on) to your GM (or the GM of the player's involved if not you). This same thing can be used for ANY other mechanical gain.

You will help determine your own fate. I have had some tell me they don't feel "right" about nominating themselves for Gains. Get over that. We, as the GMs, simply DO NOT have the time to filter every thread. We WILL miss things if you do not draw our eyes. If you want gains and you feel you should get them, tell us. We are quite likely to oblige if we agree (and the other GMs we get involved agree as well).



Quote:
The Crane did not receive anything like the detailed advice Hand gave to the Crab on how to report gains and losses for maximum effectiveness, FTR.


Quite literally, the only "detailed advice" I gave to anyone is listed above. And it was given to everyone.

In the future, however, I will personally ensure an explicit statement is made in all clan forums (assuming I am a part of it, of course).

Also, I'm fairly certain the loss of honor in Dark Paragon was not tallied against you, but I could be wrong.

Quote:
The Crab AGM (Hand) wasn't one of the "big ones" at the start of Court. And the Scorpion AGM's (Muzaka) baby daughter was born not long after Court began, so our secondary AGM (Koshin) was left handling a lot of stuff whilst also being the Mantis AGM. There were certainly times when we got quick responses, just as there were times we did not, and I would be shocked if that wasn't true for every faction.


This is correct. I was not "one of the big ones" and it was not made apparent to anyone until near the end of the court that I had been selected for the Story Team (in January, by the by). I was simply one of the most Vocal and Explicit individuals.

Quote:
Hand was big enough to contradict and win against our own AGM or the Crane one.

I assume you are referring to the matter of the Kata. If that is the case, I was not "big enough" alone to contradict. Much like all matters of conflict in the court, the issue was brought up in GM forums and discussed at length. It was decided upon by a group, not one individual.

Also, it was not a "win." It was a matter of determining how we wanted to deal with the situation that I thought had already been decided. I was wrong, so we discussed it. At some very, very great length.



Quote:
What is the biggest take-away you have from running Winter Court this year? If you could give any future AGM one piece of advice, what would it be?


Rotate GMs instead of leaving them assigned to single clans. Attachment to clans removes objectivity from the GM's viewpoints.

Be explicit about everything, all the time.

The court was generally amazing. Most of it was fun as hell, so repeat all the good stuff.

Take more breaks in the court, for longer days. If the court lasts the same length of time, at least two breaks of about 4 days a piece with no one allowed to post IC information AT ALL. To play catch up and to give people a real break from the game.

Be far more harsh on the use of Metagaming and use of OOC conversation to influence IC interactions.

Split up the rolling between numerous individuals (GMs). I spent hours and hours doing rolls for Sumai, Bowman's Wager and WWB. It was insane.

I don't know if this is advice I would push, but this is what I, and Muzaka, did for most of the court:
- Tell your clan from the beginning "This is your show. Ask forgiveness, not permission."
- Do not interfere or coach the players. Leave them to their own devices and let them run wild. For the most part, they police themselves and it gives you time to do the logistical things (like report gains and losses).
- Do not treat the court, NPCs, or any character you happen to be on as YOUR character or YOUR clan. You are a GM. Be OBjective. No clan is yours and no players are yours and no character is yours. You are here to progress the story, not to tell your own story. I know this is contentious to some people, but I consider the wall between GM and player to be very hardline. If I want to play, I will apply to play. If I want to GM, I am NOT a player and will not treat myself as one.


Quote:
Question: What can you tell us about the genesis and development of the scoring system? Who came up with it? What was the reasoning for the specific weighting given to different aspects? (e.g. one objective being worth 50 points of Honour/Glory/whatever, Honour and Glory being weighted the same despite different Clans gaining different amounts of Honour for the same action, etc.) What changes, if any, did it go through during the event?



Teh scoring system was determined from the beginning to include Honor, Status, Glory, and Infamy as well as Clan Goals. I believe it was assumed that they would all be weighted equally, but we had a discussion at the end about it. Regarding Honor specifically, we left it the way we did because upon examination, changing the weighting of honor (as you may have noticed in an infamous and deleted post accusing me of cheating) did little to affect the outcome.

Clan Goals were either given full points, half points for at least getting SOMEWHERE with the goal, or no points at all. We did not state we would do half points, but that is actually favorable to clans who received them. Otherwise, they would have gotten 0 poitns for "halfway achieved goals." We were being generous.

As a note on points, I want to reiterate again that it was damnably close in the end. However, the CCG side of things was weighted towards Seiken to such an extent that Shibatsu would have had to come out with a sizeable percentage to win. However, Shibatsu did start with favorable advantage (more clans starting with him as their choice than not).

In the end, players decided. It was close in WC, not as close in CCG aspects, and Seiken won.


I would like to state that while I agree that there were some issues with the Winter Court, I personally saw it as a major success. The issues will be dealt with in the future and new issues will arise.

In all, it was fun and I am glad I was a part of it.

_________________
C Thomas Hand
Shi-Tien Yen-Wang at WC IV*Doji Azai*BackHand*Team Stella*Athos
L5R Story Team*L5R RPG Team
"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em."
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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:30 pm 
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Scholar of the Yobanjin
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Shi-Tien Yen-Wang wrote:
I would like to state that while I agree that there were some issues with the Winter Court, I personally saw it as a major success. The issues will be dealt with in the future and new issues will arise.

In all, it was fun and I am glad I was a part of it.


^ This, right here, is something I fear will get lost in the post-mortem shuffle.

There were absolutely issues.

None of them outweighed the fun I had.

End of story.

_________________
Phoenix Loyalist. Yobanjin Obsessionado. Played Tonbo Taira at WC III, Isawa Taisho at WC IV, and Daigotsu Yukari at WC V.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:28 pm 
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Obsidian Magistrate
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A +1 to that.

I had a blast. Yes, even in the kicked-around Lion, even with the Death Duel over my head, even with giving up my baby (weep!) to our current enemy... it was AWESOME, and you couldn't keep me away from the next one with a tractor.

So many great people I got to meet, some of which I even got to play with (Kinta! I still owe you a scene!), and to participate in the one and only Big Event for the RPG side of things?

Dude.

DUDE.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:41 pm 
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I will also add... this time around, i really felt like my character was the center of a major story. I am not certain all characters felt that way, and I really don't think my character was actually a primary focus (I might be wrong), but it often felt like what happened to me was the most important story at WC. Huge success. So sure, while there were issues... scoring, objective, etc... on an individual character level, great job to all involved!


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:03 am 
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For the record, concerning the Dark Paragon thing... according to the official spreadsheet, Susumu Asina was dinged for five Honour for using Dark Paragon (Perfection), and this was indeed counted in the final tally like any other Honour change. As far as I can tell, that was the one and only instance of that happening. I don't know if anyone else even had that advantage.

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As for the rest, I am of the opinion that the Otomo must be destroyed.

Player of Asahina Umeko at Winter Court IV


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:25 am 
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Daidoji Tacticus wrote:
For the record, concerning the Dark Paragon thing... according to the official spreadsheet, Susumu Asina was dinged for five Honour for using Dark Paragon (Perfection), and this was indeed counted in the final tally like any other Honour change. As far as I can tell, that was the one and only instance of that happening. I don't know if anyone else even had that advantage.


Atsushi(Will) and Geiko(Control) also had them. I think Kyujo had Control as well.

I used Will during my duel and I think that ended up hurting the Shibatsu side because I gained .1 glory, make the Crab lose .3 glory and lost .5 honor.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:28 am 
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Ah. You did lose Honour for it, but it's listed in the spreadsheet under the generic label of "duel".

So, Dark Paragon was clearly a problematic advantage under this scoring system.

Mind you, Geiko and Kyoju don't seem to have used theirs at all. At least, at no point did they suffer losses of 0.5 Honour.

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As for the rest, I am of the opinion that the Otomo must be destroyed.

Player of Asahina Umeko at Winter Court IV


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:44 am 
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Kyojou? As in intimidate the Dragon out of the duel? It wasn't used then? Or am I mixing up names?


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:54 am 
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Obsidian Magistrate
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I think he only used traditional intimidation there (you only need Dark Paragon of Control when you fail the roll).

I never used my own because I was keeping it for emergency situation which never came, because of the traditional problem of social skills/social advantages: You don't use them at all, because there is RP for that...

To be fair, Inari did propose me to use it after I lost the Intimidation roll versus Atsuto. But, at that point of court, Geiko had shown anything but control, so it just did not sound right to apply it.


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:51 am 
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Daidoji Tacticus wrote:
For the record, concerning the Dark Paragon thing... according to the official spreadsheet, Susumu Asina was dinged for five Honour for using Dark Paragon (Perfection), and this was indeed counted in the final tally like any other Honour change. As far as I can tell, that was the one and only instance of that happening. I don't know if anyone else even had that advantage.


heh .... yeah.... my bad ...

my rolls were pretty crap without it in all honesty .. only used it twice ?

one was singing because my roll was CRAP .. and the first was i think the winding water banquet

i agree though it is a hell of a help but mannn it hurts your honour score :(


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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:42 pm 
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Obsidian Magistrate
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I stand corrected.

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C Thomas Hand
Shi-Tien Yen-Wang at WC IV*Doji Azai*BackHand*Team Stella*Athos
L5R Story Team*L5R RPG Team
"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em."
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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:33 pm 
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As a member of Story Team now, what parts of Winter Court are you looking forward to having a hand in turning into fiction, and what plot threads are you most looking forward to advancing (if allowed)?

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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:29 pm 
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Obsidian Magistrate
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Quote:
As a member of Story Team now, what parts of Winter Court are you looking forward to having a hand in turning into fiction, and what plot threads are you most looking forward to advancing (if allowed)?


Well, I'm the one doing the Winter Court fictions for the Weekly Fictions online. So, you will see what I look forward to putting in as they come up! In fact, I should be finishing hte last part of the second one right now but needed a break.

That being said, I cannot put all of what I want into the story. There is simply too much amazing shit that happened at the court. I can barely fit about 10% of it into the weekly stories.

You will see repercussions of the story in little bits and pieces throughout future tales, however. I, for one, will not forget the lasting effects and I have files for DAYS on the court.

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C Thomas Hand
Shi-Tien Yen-Wang at WC IV*Doji Azai*BackHand*Team Stella*Athos
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"It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em."
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 Post subject: Re: Questions to the WC Game Masters
PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:38 pm 
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Pekkle wrote:
As a member of Story Team now, what parts of Winter Court are you looking forward to having a hand in turning into fiction, and what plot threads are you most looking forward to advancing (if allowed)?


The entire Toku Saiga Oni saga, which includes:
- The reincarnation of the person who stopped a Jigoku incursion in the capital
- The fate of Daigotsu Tsubaki soul and her first born being send to the Dragon
- Daigotsu Geiko's foundation for a self regulating 'taint inquisition' inside the clan
- The repercursions of this strange mess around the capital. While I am sure the Imperial family bigwigs saw this as just your typical Oni incursion (heh) Megumi made it clear it was something else entirely. Surely, a Seppun Shugenja could try looking into it? In particular when a Moto Deathpriest confirmed Saiga's soul will not go to the Jigoku, a first for someone who actually accepted the taint. (This relates to Tsubaki bargain with Daigotsu himself)

More information regarding to East Central village would be -vital- too, since it's the only holding we got in Rokugan. Perhaps connect these two?

What if Tsubaki's first born was a reborn Saiga? What if this kid while staying as a hostage with the Dragon longs for the Spider for...Some reason?

The tragic and strange story of the rebel, the renegade that the Empire forgets and despises that keeps being draw to the Spider, forgiving their terrible truths and embracing it's colorful delusions could be perpetuated that way, perhaps even as an archetype.

That of course it's a bit of selfish of me of asking for this, but the East Central Hub village is something we need to know more.

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