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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV ask Ide Doburu anything.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:54 am 
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Crane Envoy to The Spider
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Audax wrote:
The war against the Scorpion was lost, because they let it be decided by a duel, and Nitoshi used a poisoned blade (or do I misremember?).

That's exactly what happened.

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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV ask Ide Doburu anything.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:09 am 
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Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider Clan
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The cards involving the unicorn and phonix in The New Order where unicorn crushes phoenix are known to happen after winter court. As such the outcome as of winter court was not in question. Phoenix could not, by themselves hold back the Moto. Based on what I could gather few clans could.

We are at Khan's march strength, our ranks filled with rejected moto from across the empire. If we got perfect peace with the phoenix, not a year delay, then the Unicorn's military power would eclipse the other clan's, especially after they all killed each other in their wars of honor.

Unicorn is a powerhouse, economically through the progressive alliance, militarily through the moto surge, and politically through the alliance with crane and our good standings with the Otomo.

Of all the progressive clans we have the highest difficulty for Seiken to mess with, we supported shiabatsu, but are perfectly prepared for seiken.

Being Unicorn was a breeze honestly.

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Spider Clan ● Loyal ● Samurai ● The Blackest Sword ● Necromancer ● Unique

"There is only ONE emperor worthy of the right to rule, I will never cease till he takes his rightful place"

Played Ide Doburu at the 2014 Winter Court.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV ask Ide Doburu anything.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:51 am 
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Scholar of the Yobanjin
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Audax wrote:
I took the search for allies not as a admittance of weakness. The Phoenix might just not want to unleash all their power on the Unicorn, similarly to Kuon who did not field the Damned against the Crane. Even Kanpeki doesn't field his undead (and, most likely, neither the Hellbeast Legion) against every enemy.


Our goal required military aid from someone else.
Not diplomatic words of support, not "the Phoenix are right, you Unicorn need to suck it up and deal," we explicitly required troops from somewhere else.

That is not the action of someone who thinks they can win alone.

There's also the fact that within the setting,the Phoenix haven't won a war in living memory-and their last"win" was more of a Volturnum-interrupted draw against the Mantis, whose numbers were perilously low at the time.

Annnnnd that I can't recall the last time the Story Team let the Phoenix score a clean win at anything but being Seiken's long-distance taxi service...

Also....the Unicorn in particular? Might just be the Phoenix's worst nightmare on the battlefield- Like the Phoenix and the Dragon, they deploy shugenja in a military fashion. Unlike the Phoenix and the Dragon, their conventional military is awe-inspiring, and they are, hands-down, the most mobile land army in Rokugan.

So their inferiority in combat magic is less than almost anyone else's, their conventional military strength is easily top 3 within the Empire (while the Phoenix are more like...bottom 3 there), their economy is strong and their numbers are high, and, unlike, say, the Spider, pretty much nobody dislikes them enough to render diplomatic aid in defeating them- and the Phoenix have shown so little political skill of their own in recent years that it's incredibly unlikely that the Firefinches will win this one in Court.

The Phoenix looking for help is a CLEAR sign of weakness, and it's part of my frustration with a number of GM directives on peace negotiations (and the Lion's "limited conflict" option) that the Phoenix would reject _____ because "it would make them look weak."

They already look weak. Incredibly weak.

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Phoenix Loyalist. Yobanjin Obsessionado. Played Tonbo Taira at WC III, Isawa Taisho at WC IV, and Daigotsu Yukari at WC V.


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 Post subject: Re: Winter Court IV ask Ide Doburu anything.
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:26 pm 
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Black Guard
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Ceithir wrote:
Daidoji Tacticus wrote:
They lost to the Scorpion five years ago. Military weakness is something they should be intimately familiar with.

Come to that, as Taisho pointed out IC once... if the Phoenix believed they could win, why would they be out looking for reinforcements? Out of six Clans at war this winter, they were the only ones doing so.


All clans at war were looking for reinforcement, or at least to prevent their enemy from getting reinforcement. They were just a little more optimistic on their chances to win by themselves.

Please note however that the objectives were not perfect mirror of each other. The Spider had to prevent the Crab from getting any kind of reinforcement, even from the Scorpion. The Crab had to prevent the Spider from getting more troops, except from the Dragon. To be fair, on the other hand, the Crab had to marry Miaka to one of their own while the Spider's marriage objective was simpler (prevent Miaka from marrying in the Crab, Scorpion, Lion... and Phoenix. Sorry Taisho, but you were quite clearly in our "enemy" category from the start).

Plus, there was a little oversimplification for the sake of the game. IRL, an economic advantage (the Progressive alliance, the Blessing) is as good as proper troops. Because you can use the extra money for weapons, mercenaries... But in game terms, they were considered two different objectives.


Oh, sure, everyone had goals WRT reinforcements, but there's a difference between "block our enemy from getting help" and "gain help for ourselves". The first suggests confidence that you can win one-on-one, the second suggests the beliefs that you cannot.

And yes, L5R has always been strange about the relation between economic and military power. The Crane are filthy rich and always have tons of food... yet are militarily a second-tier power. This is sort of explicable as the Crane skimping on military spending because our political influence lets us get away with it, but it's still... odd.

kakita_shiro wrote:
Audax wrote:
The war against the Scorpion was lost, because they let it be decided by a duel, and Nitoshi used a poisoned blade (or do I misremember?).

That's exactly what happened.


Yes, but the only reason it came down to a duel is that the Phoenix had failed to defeat them on the battlefield and didn't have the resources to continue the war. And the Scorpion are not one of Rokugan's military Big Three... whereas the Unicorn, as Gunichi points out, are a veritable nightmare.

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As for the rest, I am of the opinion that the Otomo must be destroyed.

Player of Asahina Umeko at Winter Court IV


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