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 Post subject: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 1:37 am 
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Emma-O wrote:
So, I have been given the ok to let you guys come up with ideas for mon and motto for the Susumu. I am waiting for word on the Daigotsu though. Feel free to start brainstorming some ideas or if one of you is of the artistic bent draw something up.


We have here a big opportunity given to us by the Story team. If you guys have already made your own idea on this one, feel free to give it. It will be add to our brainstorming :).

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:02 am 
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Any and all feedback will be welcome. As another one of the delegates, I know we are looking for what people would like to see. This is an amazing opportunity for us to leave our impact on the game setting.

So, please! Help us! Give us ideas!

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:33 am 
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The susumu mon should be something subtle. My immediate thought was the flower that came up in the Suzume fictions. something that looks pretty, until you read into it a bit. As for a motto, maybe something like "the well placed word is as sharp as a sword" or something to that effect. Again, we want to emphasize the dual nature of the susumu. they're friendly courtiers! who represent all you hate!

the daigotsu mon should be one of two things: the hantei mon (or closely related), or (my preference) a representation of daigotsu's mask. cliches are going to be hard to avoid with the motto here, so maybe we embrace it. from Gp4, theres this: “The Heavens have thrown out the influence of mortals, and so the greatest mortal of all has turned and seized the Realm of Evil! Better to rule in hell than reign in the Heavens!” emphasis on the part that i think might work.

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:39 am 
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"Lies are a Courtesy, Truth is a Blade"

i figure this would be a good motto for the family founded by the Dark Fortune of Lies, it also plays up the oddly dual nature of the Susumu, nice-y nice...until they're not.

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:50 am 
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deception and deceit arn't the same thing, i like the last lines of susumu for the moto as most susumu follow in his footsteps. "i server two masters" and i like the idea of a fan with the spiders web lacing between the tines


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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:56 am 
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This is the mon I used during WC3:
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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:10 am 
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Whether the above, or something similar, I think the flower/spider motif is a decent one.

In addition, whatever is decided upon, I'd like to throw in as the default clout token image for Egg of P'an Ku.

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 3:25 pm 
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Susumu Akurei wrote:
This is the mon I used during WC3:
Image


That is a very cool image, Akurei. Did you make it, or did you commission it?

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:13 pm 
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Susumu Akurei wrote:
This is the mon I used during WC3:
Image


Gosh this is awesome! Man I wish they gave me a Susumu for wintercourt... This looks fantastic!

Daigotsu Kandagger wrote:
"Lies are a Courtesy, Truth is a Blade"

i figure this would be a good motto for the family founded by the Dark Fortune of Lies, it also plays up the oddly dual nature of the Susumu, nice-y nice...until they're not.


^ THIS... This is exactly what the Susumu are about, truthful, transparent. Fitting for the family descending from the spider that sat besides an empress.

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 6:35 am 
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sndwurks wrote:
That is a very cool image, Akurei. Did you make it, or did you commission it?

Thanks. The design is mine. Obviously the Spider is the Spider mon; but I made the flower based on the appearance of one of the many species of marigold (I believe its was the French marigold).

Besides the fact that the Marigold was used in the Spider Infiltration era; it is a flower which belongs to the same family as the Chrysanthemum; so I wanted it to evoke that. Additionally, the Spider is on top of 8 petals (there are 2 sets of 8 petals), as if extending its influence upon all the other 8 Clans, and thus the Empire as a whole. At least that was the idea.


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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:02 am 
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Susumu Akurei wrote:
sndwurks wrote:
That is a very cool image, Akurei. Did you make it, or did you commission it?

Thanks. The design is mine. Obviously the Spider is the Spider mon; but I made the flower based on the appearance of one of the many species of marigold (I believe its was the French marigold).

Besides the fact that the Marigold was used in the Spider Infiltration era; it is a flower which belongs to the same family as the Chrysanthemum; so I wanted it to evoke that. Additionally, the Spider is on top of 8 petals (there are 2 sets of 8 petals), as if extending its influence upon all the other 8 Clans, and thus the Empire as a whole. At least that was the idea.

Genius. Use it!

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 7:51 am 
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kakita_shiro wrote:
Susumu Akurei wrote:
sndwurks wrote:
That is a very cool image, Akurei. Did you make it, or did you commission it?

Thanks. The design is mine. Obviously the Spider is the Spider mon; but I made the flower based on the appearance of one of the many species of marigold (I believe its was the French marigold).

Besides the fact that the Marigold was used in the Spider Infiltration era; it is a flower which belongs to the same family as the Chrysanthemum; so I wanted it to evoke that. Additionally, the Spider is on top of 8 petals (there are 2 sets of 8 petals), as if extending its influence upon all the other 8 Clans, and thus the Empire as a whole. At least that was the idea.

Genius. Use it!


seriously, i'm sold. nicely done.

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:26 am 
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I love the mon..... so to Akurei, your WC3 yojimbo approves! ;)

As for the quote, it really needs to be a comment directly relating to Susumu. Something he did (I like the serving two masters actually) or something he actually said.


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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 5:38 pm 
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daigotsu cielago wrote:
The daigotsu mon should be one of two things: the hantei mon (or closely related), or (my preference) a representation of daigotsu's mask. cliches are going to be hard to avoid with the motto here, so maybe we embrace it. from Gp4, theres this: “The Heavens have thrown out the influence of mortals, and so the greatest mortal of all has turned and seized the Realm of Evil! Better to rule in hell than reign in the Heavens!” emphasis on the part that i think might work.


If we get to make the Daigotsu mon, I really like the mask of Daigotsu idea. I think a very simplified version of his mask with a chrysanthemum on the forehead in between the horns would be cool.

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:28 pm 
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Concerning the motto, I think it should embrace how Daigotsu Susumu served as a courtier and how his family adopted it. They usually serve two masters, one Spider and one from another faction. Spontaneously, I cannot come up with something cool, but I think the motto should go along this path.

As for the mon, I do like the one posted, even if it uses the Spider mon. That said, I have no knowledge of underlying rules concerning Rokugani heraldry. Susumu's first successes were among the Ide, and his first action as Dark Fortune was to get the Tao of Fu Leng, which kept some divine power. These could also help envisioning a mon.

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:48 pm 
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Audax wrote:
Concerning the motto, I think it should embrace how Daigotsu Susumu served as a courtier and how his family adopted it. They usually serve two masters, one Spider and one from another faction. Spontaneously, I cannot come up with something cool, but I think the motto should go along this path.

As for the mon, I do like the one posted, even if it uses the Spider mon. That said, I have no knowledge of underlying rules concerning Rokugani heraldry. Susumu's first successes were among the Ide, and his first action as Dark Fortune was to get the Tao of Fu Leng, which kept some divine power. These could also help envisioning a mon.


I don't have the most extensive knowledge of the story, but perhaps, "Two Masters, One Purpose"?

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:02 pm 
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Audax wrote:
Concerning the motto, I think it should embrace how Daigotsu Susumu served as a courtier and how his family adopted it. They usually serve two masters, one Spider and one from another faction. Spontaneously, I cannot come up with something cool, but I think the motto should go along this path.


Something incorporating "between two fires" or "walking the razor's edge" appeals to my insatiable appetite for melodrama...

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 12:58 am 
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Susumu Akurei wrote:
This is the mon I used during WC3:
Image


Unfortunately, we can't use this one. I don't have more explanation about why, but we know the Story Team have already rejected this Mon. Sorry Akurei, that was a great one.

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 2:33 am 
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That happens.
It would still be nice to know why it was rejected, as that would help you guys come up with a new concept.

I mean there are many reasons I can think of why the mon was rejected (the use of the spider mon, they don't like the flower I used, the whole concept goes against what the feel the Susumu should be, it was made by me and they hate me, aliens, ninja aliens! :lol: ), but without knowing why, its kind of hard to suggest anything else.


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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 4:36 am 
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My assumption woudl be they don't want us to use what looks like an imperial flower, even though we likely hold the greatest claim to using such a symbol. Even if we could, it likely makes more sense among the Daigotsu however. If you look at the history or Japanese heraldry, there are MANY styles of Mon to choose from to base on on. Some are symmetric, some are not. Some very simple, some ornate. But none with any spiders or webs that I can find. Hehe, guess the arachnid was never very venerated, go figure.

What I suggest, representing both the dual masters, and the mirror reflection, we should have a mon integrating a yin-yang. Ideally, one either made of webs, or perhaps a basic yin-yang, with the inverse color dots actually being small webs.


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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:49 am 
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Why not try the same flower but with a web in the center?

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:30 am 
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I could make up different configurations if you guys want (same flower, different spider; same spider, different flower; same flower w/ no spider; different flower w/ web; etc...), but it would be best if you could get an idea of what the ST did not like about the design.

I get a feeling of it being related to it containing the actual Spider mon; but an official answer would be best... Or I can create 10 different options for them t choose one... :lol:

Anyways, it is up to you guys, but if you want me to mock up a few designs, let me know. You can PM me if you would rather the discussion not be public (either here or on the WC4 forums; just follow the haunting music).


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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:36 am 
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For reference, I believe these are the Mons of the other clans/families: http://exahyl.deviantart.com/gallery/30793325/L5R

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:24 am 
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looking at those mons, and giving this some thought over the week, heres my ideas:

Daigotsu: a stylized version of the mask (see the shadowlands and the spider clan style. sharp lines)
Susumu: two figures, back to back, bowing, in the center of a spiders web.

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 Post subject: Re: [WC 4] Susumu family mon and motto
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 1:19 pm 
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It's maybe more suitable for a Daigotsu Motto but I like:

Those who will not follow are doomed to lead.

or

The light shines brightest in the darkness.

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