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 Post subject: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:07 pm 
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Scholar of the Yobanjin
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4 Force 4 Chi

- HR 10GC 0PH

Samurai Duelist Experienced Unique

After Atsushi enters play, lose 2 honor. After Atsushi wins a duel, give him a +1F infamy token.

Battle: Fear 3 with +1 strength for each of Atsushi's infamy tokens.

**********

Honor loss... not just for Shadowlands anymore!

*sigh*

At least he's actually tough.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Spider Dueling could increasingly be a thing!

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Wait.... so the first samurai without Honor loss, storywise designed to be with the Susumu, now has honor loss... without the Shadowlands keyword...

welp... at least he can go into my dueling deck :D

Sad part is comparing him to some of the other unique... he doesnt add up, and he isn't worth the 10G cost.

Flavor wise he is coo though, infamy tokens are pretty hot!

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:50 pm 
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So he gets xp'd and has an honor loss on him??? fckn YAY! :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:01 pm 
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kakita_shiro wrote:
Spider Dueling could increasingly be a thing!


It looks that way, looking at the rest of them looks like things being developed - Lion got a duelist in TNO, as did Dragon & Crane, and all three got duelists in the Christmas pack.

The honour loss hurts though, and having seen our new box it doesn't stop honour loss in any way. Still, I'm going to have faith design know what they're doing moving forward in 20F - Lessons have got to have been learnt from Ivory.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:32 pm 
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I know comparing Personalities of other clans often doesn't work, but how would you rate him compared to others from the Holiday Pack? (~Link~)

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:33 pm 
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It's probably to represent that he's an infamous duelist who kills in first-blood duels, but I think 2 Honor loss is a bit much.

Audax wrote:
I know comparing Personalities of other clans often doesn't work, but how would you rate him compared to others from the Holiday Pack? (~Link~)

Shinjo Tae-Hyun is easily the weakest on his own. Everyone else I think more or less stacks up.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:44 pm 
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I...I just...what is going on with Spider? Unless we have a dueling theme going on, which I suppose is a possibility, we get an expensive guy that has an honor loss tacked on that doesn't mesh with any of our other themes. Even if we get dueling, why are we still losing honor for bringing our own people in? Makes me glad I stopped buying stuff by ALITS. Maybe Ivory 3 will have Spider figured out...

Story wise, Spider has cool stuff, at least.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:53 pm 
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Audax wrote:
I know comparing Personalities of other clans often doesn't work, but how would you rate him compared to others from the Holiday Pack?


It really depends on the themes supporting them tbh, if the Unicorn have enough magistrate dishonour support to help Shinjo Tae-Hyun then his value shoots up, similarly if Spider get no more duelists Atsushi's value drops accordingly. In a vacuum, I think the Ujiro and Kenaro stand out for me and powerhouses, but Atsushi with the right dueling support could be 6/7F, and seeing as most duelist decks have weapon support, he could easily be a 9F or more beast packing a Fear 5+

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Last edited by Daigotsu Stubear on Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:54 pm 
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Audax wrote:
I know comparing Personalities of other clans often doesn't work, but how would you rate him compared to others from the Holiday Pack? (~Link~)


Renyu proves that once again, shadowlands is only a bad thing

But for the most part Atsushi at least fits in a current trend. Kenaro is WAY out there for lion and the unicorn's only good if magistrates become a thing which I think they will.

That Moshi though.... awesome!

Phoenix got another naval shugenja.

Scorpion poison dueling might be coming back.

All great things.

Atsushi, with a little dueling support... could be amazing. Having Singing blade built into a 4 Chi duelist would make him a nightmare to deal with.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:35 pm 
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Kenaro fits Lion's theme! Lion's theme is good guys with Battle actions!

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:47 pm 
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What the hell! More honor loss and not even on a shadowlands personality.... yeah that sucks.

So it seems the theme for the next 3 months is spider dueling. Wonder what's next because we have been all over the place. So maybe after 3 months we get some ninjas? Or maybe some magistrate dishonor... could design just pick a theme and commit to it please.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 11:49 pm 
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DarkWolf wrote:
What the hell! More honor loss and not even on a shadowlands personality.... yeah that sucks.

So it seems the theme for the next 3 months is spider dueling. Wonder what's next because we have been all over the place. So maybe after 3 months we get some ninjas? Or maybe some magistrate dishonor... could design just pick a theme and commit to it please.


Actually... Atsushi doesn;t strike me as "Spider dueling," so much as "4 Chi guy to soak enemy duels and get bigger for a military win. With Fear."

Really, the only hangup I see with this guy is the honor loss (because killing people in duels you're not supposed to is so much more likely to cost honor than, say, being a stinking gaijin foreigner.)

*cough*

*cough*

*cough*

*cough*

*cough*

It's baffling to me, because without the honor loss, he's just a solid, big-for-Ivory duelist with a neat trait and a printed Battle action.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:21 am 
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DarkWolf wrote:
So it seems the theme for the next 3 months is spider dueling.


Atsushi will probably be the fixed card for 20 Festivals, so he's more the harbinger of a theme to come than an indication of any specific shift right now.

Also, as a tangent, he was my back-up pick for the Peasant District at GenCon...I can see why they let me go with Sawaki now :)

Mark

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:30 am 
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In comparison to the other Holiday Pack guys, he seems lackluster to trash can, like the Unicorn guy.

For IE2 in general, he seems like he could be okay. Not great, not bad, just meh.

Not overly impressed but if 20F shakes things up enough, he could be okay

/shrug

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:42 am 
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Shiba Gunichi wrote:
It's baffling to me, because without the honor loss, he's just a solid, big-for-Ivory duelist with a neat trait and a printed Battle action.


Same thing I think. Yet Beast is also right while ours seems to be decent he isn't even in the same league as Ren yu or the kensai cavalry guy.

So my question is what does honor loss get us besides an auto loss to dishonor? Because if anything I Feel like the design team feels like it's flavor. Cards like this make me question the fact they understand their own game. Seems like some stuff are removed arbitrarily like unique with some half assed explanation with no respect for "flavor" and some things remain for flavor even if they hurt mechanics like shadowlands being all bad and spider honor loss.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:34 am 
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Maybe we are supposed to play him with the new Holding to help with Honor loss, maybe they release a Sensei in 20F along with him to help mitigate the honor loss.

That would be annoying if you only had a starter that did not have a sensei and you had to go hunt one down...

As a Unique who does not seem to compare to other uniques, which uniques are those? The ones released before Ivory Edition, or the ones released after Ivory Edition?

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:50 am 
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The problem with the honor loss reduction holdings is now Spider is getting pigeon-holed even further into specific cards, which is never a good thing. I feel like Spider is becoming the Rube Goldberg of design. They keep changing everything into more complexity when just some simple streamlining of design and simple decisions could solve a lot of problems.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:22 am 
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Guys, this is a 20F card... could you at least wait until you see the rest of 20F cards before whining about the honor loss, the stats or anything.

Come on, every thread is full of negativity. I get being negative about current cards and Arc status for the spider, but in Strict we're doing really well so far (and this is the 20F environment sans the big set that changed everything).

I'm not asking anyone to have faith on DT or anything like that, but please for jebus' sake stop with the negativity!! It's making the boards lame and keeping people from getting involved.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:26 am 
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The UnderTaro wrote:
Guys, this is a 20F card... could you at least wait until you see the rest of 20F cards before whining about the honor loss, the stats or anything.

Come on, every thread is full of negativity. I get being negative about current cards and Arc status for the spider, but in Strict we're doing really well so far (and this is the 20F environment sans the big set that changed everything).

I'm not asking anyone to have faith on DT or anything like that, but please for jebus' sake stop with the negativity!! It's making the boards lame and keeping people from getting involved.


I will stop being negative when design stops giving us negative cards! In the meantime, I'm going to express my opinion. You say this is a 20f card and so are the others previewed here. And this guy is so lacklustered compared to the others.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:41 am 
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Unless 20F throws in some cards that relate to enter play Honor-loss, of which we've seen a few in the past.

But yes, it can be hard to be happy about the honor loss, without already knowing if there are any mitigating factors.

With Spider Dueling being a possible thing, Death of Virtue Style could see a return. *shrug*

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:44 am 
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Sparks wrote:
The UnderTaro wrote:
Come on, every thread is full of negativity. I get being negative about current cards and Arc status for the spider, but in Strict we're doing really well so far (and this is the 20F environment sans the big set that changed everything).

I'm not asking anyone to have faith on DT or anything like that, but please for jebus' sake stop with the negativity!! It's making the boards lame and keeping people from getting involved.


I will stop being negative when design stops giving us negative cards! In the meantime, I'm going to express my opinion. You say this is a 20f card and so are the others previewed here. And this guy is so lacklustered compared to the others.


I agree with both here. Yeah we could be more positive but the DT isn't giving us much to go on. What can I expect from 20F... more honor loss from my cards for no mechanical gain :seppuku: Even compared to the other clan specific previews he seems mediocre at best.

Or maybe its our awesome stronghold that got totally redone. Or maybe the coherent design and clan themes presented for spider. Or our totally awesome sensei. Well you see what we are saying, we keep getting boned.

Yeah our negativity might be putting off new players from joining the clan but we also need this to change so the clan is again competitive and fun. For both new and old players and we have to call out things so the feedback hopefully gets back to the DT.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 7:45 am 
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Sparks wrote:
I will stop being negative when design stops giving us negative cards! In the meantime, I'm going to express my opinion. You say this is a 20f card and so are the others previewed here. And this guy is so lacklustered compared to the others.

I disagree with your analysis of Atsushi XP. The Unicorn Personality is easily the worst Personality shown; close to Clan Champion HR, no synergy with current Unicorn cards, and offers very little as a body. Atsushi, while pricey, is a Force beast with a Battle action that gets better and better when played with a subset of cards that offer the most powerful removal in the game.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:00 am 
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He's garbage. Completely unplayable with that honor loss, as long as we auto-lose to dishonor.

EDIT: It's also nice to see Spider continuing to be punished for PLAYING THEIR OWN GUYS. Yeah, we have to 'play by the same rules as everyone', while we're the ONLY CLAN with Personalities who cost us honor, Personalities who aren't mechanically any better than other Clan's Personalities.

Seth, if you're reading this, can you PLEASE tell Design that Spider, as a whole, is BEYOND sick of this mechanic.

Also, oh look, yet ANOTHER Design switch for Spider, now we're going dueling after the abject failures of all our themes to start Ivory.

The utter lack of anything resembling consistency for Spider probably has a lot to do with our continued weakness.

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Last edited by CrimsonEyes on Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [2014 Holiday Pack] Daigotsu Atsushi XP
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:05 am 
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The UnderTaro wrote:
Guys, this is a 20F card... could you at least wait until you see the rest of 20F cards before whining about the honor loss, the stats or anything.

Come on, every thread is full of negativity. I get being negative about current cards and Arc status for the spider, but in Strict we're doing really well so far (and this is the 20F environment sans the big set that changed everything).

I'm not asking anyone to have faith on DT or anything like that, but please for jebus' sake stop with the negativity!! It's making the boards lame and keeping people from getting involved.



It appears that my last response was eaten by the internet.

Thing is, there are 3 clan specific personalities with honor loss right now for Ivory 2. Those 3 personalities all belong to spider, who has dishonor as its achilles heel, and have had that for a long time.

Not being on PT, we have no idea of what's coming up, so our only basis on what's good or not is what we've seen.

Also adding drawbacks for thematic flavor but not offering something to counteract them is a terrible way to design a game (i'm looking at you Shadowlands keyword)


On a positive note, love the art on Atsushi XP and the fleshing out of the spider clan in general.

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