Shinden Fu Leng


Bow before us, or fall before us
It is currently Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:39 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 1:49 pm 
Offline
Daigotsu's Legion
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Posts: 15
It seems that every set we get a new mechanic to work with instead of supporting what we have.
Last set we got the clout mechanic and no support to speak of this set.
Instead we have two new families. Don't get me wrong, I love Kokujin but I'd rather see support for what finally seemed like a theme that could work for us.

Also, finally a Ninja Sensei and it's not for Spider :poof:


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:56 pm 
Offline
Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider Clan
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 1137
ToraNoShi wrote:

Also, finally a Ninja Sensei and it's not for Spider :poof:


Implying that our Goju would be taught by a weak women like Shika? Seppuku for you my friend lol ;)

:seppuku:

Just to make sure that this isn't understood as a misogynist statement: The Spider Clan/Lost have traditionally had many strong women and female leaders in their ranks. So that Shika is a woman doesn't play a role whether she teaches Spider characters or their Goju allies. - Audax

_________________
Spider Clan ● Loyal ● Samurai ● The Blackest Sword ● Necromancer ● Unique

"There is only ONE emperor worthy of the right to rule, I will never cease till he takes his rightful place"

Played Ide Doburu at the 2014 Winter Court.


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 4:16 pm 
Offline
Daigotsu's Legion
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:47 pm
Posts: 15
Quote:
Implying that our Goju would be taught by a weak women like Shika? Seppuku for you my friend lol ;)


No, more along the line of I've been waiting for a Sensei for our ninjas and once a ninja sensei is printed it's not for us.
But that still gives me hope that we will get one that is specific to our ninjas ... perhaps, someday, maybe


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 6:07 pm 
Offline
Trustworthy Adviser
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:50 pm
Posts: 233
I may have missed the mention, but Unforeseen Cost puts the hurt on some dishonor and honor runners. Making me consider running some as meta.

_________________
Samurai ● Spider Clan ● Sparrow Clan ● Yojimbo
BeastEG wrote:
You win the internet good sir!


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:59 pm 
Offline
Black Guard
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:41 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Guatemala
Daigotsu Atsuo wrote:
DarkWolf wrote:
Awesome stuff [/quote="DarkWolf"]
Awesome reply


Although I can see your logic it is fundamentally flawed since surplus can only exist if the supply is higher than the demand for a unique at a given price. The law of supply and demand states that if there are a lot of card A the market price should adjust downward. So basically what non unique rares do is increment the demand (want 3 instead of 1) aspect of a card while also reducing the supply ( less people willing to trade one). Which translates to higher card prices also known as high priced rares. And because some cards are generic (fit in many decks) you have double the effect on the card. So you are hit with a double price increment on rares and as such become chase rares. Unique kept the price of cards down.

But don't think I am bashing AEG for rent seeking. They are after all a business. So I understand but as such I don't buy the story. They are using price discrimination to extract consumer surplus. Good for them.

I'm however saying that unique has been at the heart of L5R for a long time and I liked it. Hell it's one of the reasons I got into the game. Those unique personalities had flavor and in Ivory I feel a lot of the L5R flavor is being extracted out of the game. Seems more generic somehow. So I don't like experienced non unique. But heck I'm not even a paying customer anymore so I drag this out anymore. Sorry for the long post.

Personally loving the shugenja artisan family. But I'm hoping it gets developed into a theme and it isn't like clout. A fad.

_________________
Image


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:31 pm 
Offline
Paragon of Dark Virtue
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:15 am
Posts: 276
DarkWolf wrote:
Although I can see your logic it is fundamentally flawed since surplus can only exist if the supply is higher than the demand for a unique at a given price. The law of supply and demand states that if there are a lot of card A the market price should adjust downward. So basically what non unique rares do is increment the demand (want 3 instead of 1) aspect of a card while also reducing the supply ( less people willing to trade one). Which translates to higher card prices also known as high priced rares. And because some cards are generic (fit in many decks) you have double the effect on the card. So you are hit with a double price increment on rares and as such become chase rares. Unique kept the price of cards down.


I think you are making a major error in your thinking by defining the supply as the bolded. The supply will always be the cards sold out of the box, not the cards available in trade from others. Not counting foils, it should take roughly 3 and 1/3 boxes for someone to have a playset of every one of the 50 Rare cards in a set.

Lets say you have a group of 9 players, each of them wants a playset of every card for a standard expansion set. This means that they need to open 30 boxes of the set to get the 27 copies of the cards. This results in an 18 copy surplus of each unique card when every player wants playsets of each card. This is the "best case" demand scenario involving uniques and it still ends up with a surplus. Unless there is demand for a unique card 3 times greater than the demand for a playset of a non-unique card there will be a surplus of that unique card.


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 5:46 am 
Offline
Black Guard
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:41 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Guatemala
Daigotsu Atsuo wrote:
Awesome stuff


Now I see why we are looking at things differently. In my model extra cards are traded or sold in order to reduce the need to buy 3 1/3 boxes, well at least the monetary output needed. And some consumers aren't looking for a playset of every card but want specific cards.

But in your model since every consumer wants a play set even if the cards are put up for trade they have nowhere to go so they become surplus.

I agree that in your model there will be surplus and indeed unique cards are detrimental. I would of course challenge the fact that some players don't want or need a play set but want a set of the cards you need or want so they don't open 3 1/3 boxes. For this type of player the $$$ goes up.

:lol: So you see our discussion is a simple difference of how we perceive the card market :lol: So to wrap it up it really depends on which of the two type of consumers, the collectors and the casual, is predominant. Now that info I don't have but in my play group it's casual.

_________________
Image


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:22 am 
Offline
Paragon of Dark Virtue
 Profile

Joined: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:39 pm
Posts: 276
I'm happy to see house of no tomorrow and the brotherhood sensei. i think they may be enough to revive my Sleep deck. I'll have to mess with it a bit to see.
I don't think the problems the spider have are going to be resolved in one set. I do think they are moving in the right direction. I'm guessing Ivory 2 will really set the tone for the future of the Spider. Maybe I was setting my expectaions lower than most everyone else.

I'm actually excited to try some of this new stuff


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 6:28 am 
Offline
Obsidian Magistrate
 Profile

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:56 pm
Posts: 69
As far as the economics discussion goes: the push from Unique Experienced to non-Unique Experienced will have relatively little impact on zero-to-deck buy prices, for several reasons.

First, you're already building decks with this sort of quantity demand, especially if you're playing Strict. You may have noticed that there are virtually no Unique people in the Strict environment (except Clan Champions). That some of the non-Uniques you are playing will have the Experienced keyword going forward does not change anything about deck design; that change already happened, beginning in Ivory base. You just didn't notice. There are already non-Unique rare personalities. All that changes from the current environment is that some of them will have the Experienced keyword.

Second, it is not a realistic model of deck design to compare the cost of one Unique rare to the cost of a playset of non-Unique rares; printing Experienced personalities as non-Uniques does not change how many cards you are playing. Yes, all else being equal, Unique cards have less after-market value than non-Unique cards, but in an alternate world where a given personality is Unique, the other two card slots are still filled, presumably (and ideally) with personalities of roughly equivalent functionality (and thus, at least in the model, rarity).

Finally, because of clan diversity, even non-Unique rare personalities are rarely expensive on the secondary market. Except in the unusual cases where a personality sees wide play outside its clan, the target market for any given personality caps out at about 25-30% of the player population even in some of the most heavily-bandwagonned eras (Embassy Crane, Spider Breeder, Chagatron). Simple economics ensures that these cards will never be as highly priced as Strategy or Holding rares that have wide appeal. Almost all Strict Ivory rare personalities are in the $5-7 range at the major singles retailers. Exceptions are cards like Daigotsu Teruo with wide cross-clan appeal.

So, yes, Keppo XP is probably going to be a $10-12 card. But, as always, the chase cards for the set will not be people. My early guesses? A New Alliance, Brazen Disregard, and Emerald Ascension. Honorable mentions for Lane of Immorality (especially if JPI is reprinted in Twenty Festivals) and Unforeseen Cost (if honor/dishonor meta is trendy).


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Tue Oct 28, 2014 9:43 pm 
Offline
Black Guard
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:41 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Guatemala
Qalyar wrote:
First, you're already building decks with this sort of quantity demand, especially if you're playing Strict. You may have noticed that there are virtually no Unique people in the Strict environment (except Clan Champions).


Yup 100% agreed the price increase already happened. So most people won't notice. The one part of your argument I would point out as flawed is the fact that you assume that the 2 slots will have to filled with rares... but I do not think ivory uncommon are going to be included since rare is the way to go. So yeah price won't increase because it already rose.

Hope design improves for Spider seems like we lack consistency.

_________________
Image


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:45 am 
Offline
Black Guard
 Profile

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:45 am
Posts: 106
This will find a nice home in our military decks.

Dirty Tricks

Battle: Straighten your target Personality. Dishonor him. Lose 2 Honor. You may take an additional action.

[url]http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=12000,#hashid=ada8333da6a046ba860b3484399aaa67,#cardcount=9
[/url]

Paragon-esque?


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:58 am 
Offline
You don't expect anything, then...BOOM! NINJAS!
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:37 am
Posts: 1602
Daigotsu Hoturi wrote:
This will find a nice home in our military decks.

Dirty Tricks

Battle: Straighten your target Personality. Dishonor him. Lose 2 Honor. You may take an additional action.

[url]http://imperialassembly.com/oracle/#cardid=12000,#hashid=ada8333da6a046ba860b3484399aaa67,#cardcount=9
[/url]

Paragon-esque?



Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the better battle/straighten actions that doesn't cost honor loss and dishonoring a peep?

_________________
Image
Image
AEG EVENTS TEAM


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:14 am 
Offline
Bad Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:37 am
Posts: 384
Sparks wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the better battle/straighten actions that doesn't cost honor loss and dishonoring a peep?

No! Don't you see? The Spider doesn't care about honor!

*has no family honor*
*loses honor from own personalities and actions*
“SHOURIDOOOOO”
*loses honor from other player's personalities and actions*
*dies homeless, disgraced and alone*


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:37 pm 
Offline
Black Guard
 Profile

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:45 am
Posts: 106
You must have missed the take another action part.


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:26 pm 
Offline
Black Guard
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:41 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Guatemala
Buttlord wrote:
Sparks wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the better battle/straighten actions that doesn't cost honor loss and dishonoring a peep?

No! Don't you see? The Spider doesn't care about honor!


I think I might be missing something but loosing 2 honor isn't a joke when our weak spot is dishonor. Seems to me this strategy is more at home in crab or scorpion than on our military.

_________________
Image


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:06 pm 
Offline
Bad Poster
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:37 am
Posts: 384
It may not be a joke, but my post was.


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:53 pm 
Offline
Black Guard
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:41 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Guatemala
Buttlord wrote:
It may not be a joke, but my post was.


Oh ha my bad :seppuku:

_________________
Image


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:03 am 
Offline
Gravity Dragon's Vanguard: The Shadow Soul Crusher
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:30 pm
Posts: 1335
Location: Hyperbolic Time Chamber of Negativity
Regardless of the state of the cards, I would like to give a BIG shout out to the artists.

The Spider art has been great the entire arc and somehow only seems to get better! It's pretty amazing across the entire set!

Congrats!

_________________
Spider Clan ● L̶o̶y̶a̶l̶ ● Nonhuman ● Monk ● Ninja ● Gravity ● Duelist ● Kensai ● Conqueror ● Magistrate

"I crush you"

Image


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:34 am 
Offline
Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider Clan
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:40 pm
Posts: 1137
BeastEG wrote:
Regardless of the state of the cards, I would like to give a BIG shout out to the artists.

The Spider art has been great the entire arc and somehow only seems to get better! It's pretty amazing across the entire set!

Congrats!


Indeed! The Kokujins and Takahide especially look fantastic this time around!

_________________
Spider Clan ● Loyal ● Samurai ● The Blackest Sword ● Necromancer ● Unique

"There is only ONE emperor worthy of the right to rule, I will never cease till he takes his rightful place"

Played Ide Doburu at the 2014 Winter Court.


Top
 

 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:15 pm 
Offline
Dark Knowledge
User avatar
 Profile

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:15 am
Posts: 1016
TheItsyBitsySpider wrote:
Indeed! The Kokujins and Takahide especially look fantastic this time around!

I've submitted this to the understatement of the year awards :lol:

_________________
—Jesse, My Profile


Top
 

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group  
Design By John Lee Hooker Ringtones     
Updated By Kieron Thwaites (Ron2K)