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 Post subject: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:43 am 
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Gravity Dragon's Vanguard: The Shadow Soul Crusher
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CHECK 'EM OUT!

Ninja Edit since Mark loves pointing out my mistakes :lol:

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Last edited by BeastEG on Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ANO Previews are UP ON ORACLE!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:44 am 
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Mae fy hofrenfad yn llawn llyswennod
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What's ANO? :P

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 Post subject: Re: ANO Previews are UP ON ORACLE!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:18 am 
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 Post subject: Re: ANO Previews are UP ON ORACLE!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:31 am 
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You don't expect anything, then...BOOM! NINJAS!
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Well I can say, after looking through the entire set, I will just sit back and wait for Chris to tell me to wait for the next set for something good for spider, yet again. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: TNO Previews are UP ON ORACLE!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Gravity Dragon's Vanguard: The Shadow Soul Crusher
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I did my best to replicate our usual Clan previews. Also, hopefully this allows for some SFL discussion on some specific cards that seem geared towards effective Spider usage.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:48 pm 
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Your Friendly Neighborhood Spider Clan
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That is a good number of shadowlands hate...

Oh wait, no shadowlands support... Ok :(

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:49 pm 
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Gravity Dragon's Vanguard: The Shadow Soul Crusher
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I agree, the amount of Shadowlands hate in this set seems a little aggressive, especially considering we got only 1 card that seems to be designed for low honor clans.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:56 pm 
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What I like most about this set is that there are many story prizes in there (Kokujin characters etc.), but there are also nice story tidbits (Hida Ruri is still around, Onchi has infiltrated the Scorpion).

However, whereas other clans learn about alliances and battles, there isn't much going on for the Spider Clan. Granted, the alliance with the Dragon Clan seems to have deepened. But to learn some more about what the Spider are doing and are up to would have been nice.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Whee, Shadowlands hate. Nice to see a we still get a keyword that is nothing but a negative for us without any extra compensation for carrying that negative keyword.

I'm sure we'll be good 'next set', right? :roll:

EDIT: Also nice that the worst competitive Clan gets MORE cards that are meta vs them, so if we started doing going in strict, everyone has easy Spider meta on hand.

Because we can't have that, after all. Purge rotates out, more Shadowlands hate rotates in.

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Last edited by CrimsonEyes on Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:27 pm 
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theres some very interesting stuff in here, but i have to agree with Sparks. this set does nothing to improve our chances, and with all the shadowlands hate, i'd argue it actually puts us further back than we already were. though i think theres an argument to be made that given how terrible we are, i doubt anyone is going to bother putting in meta against us.

as i said elsewhere, i think its cool that the spider seem to really be coming together from a style and story standpoint. a pure shut family, duelists, courtiers, etc. its just a shame that this isn't mirrored mechanically, as we seem to still be as scattered and underpowered as ever.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:58 pm 
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I only see 2 personalities (Lady Sorrow and Hida O-Win) with shadowlands hate and nothing else. Am I missing something?

Also, do you all think House of No Tomorrow is worthwhile?


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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:14 pm 
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Did everyone else miss the existence of Shrine of the Colonies and Otomo Bureaucrat?


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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:22 pm 
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That shrine makes me very happy.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:31 pm 
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I've just read Bryan Reese's article on design changes for TNO (over at the Imperial Assembly). Apparently, there are now experienced Personalities that are not automatically unique. AEG wants to reserve unique Personalities to characters and items important in the story.

While I like that design and story are linked, I feel that uniqueness should just be decided by the story status of a Personality, but also by the mechanical power of a card. But maybe uniqueness and power are implicitely linked.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 4:53 pm 
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Ninube, Tairao, and Kageto. At least we have very useful Shugenjas.


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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:48 pm 
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I thought our cards were good.
Then i saw the rest of the set, at least disapointment happens all in one day now.


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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:22 pm 
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House of No Tomorrow is pretty good for us. Given that we always go second, if you play a trip of these then its 46 for honor or -26 for dishonor, which is pretty universally good for us.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:47 pm 
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daigotsu cielago wrote:
House of No Tomorrow is pretty good for us. Given that we always go second, if you play a trip of these then its 46 for honor or -26 for dishonor, which is pretty universally good for us.

I misread that at first and thought that it made a dishonor victory easier (i.e. triple would make a dishonor victory occur at -17), but your interpretation makes more sense.


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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:48 pm 
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Oh well I expected nothing from this release due to the fact that it was mostly just kinda thrown in the environment. By this I mean all previews in one day and no pre release.

I can honestly say that I love our art and the non CCG part of the clan. Maybe next time or someone sees something I don't. What i dislike is the inclusion of new mechanics, seems like they are throwing card design to the wall to see what sticks. What I HATE is the experienced non unique, really just feels like a money grab GO CHASE RARES!!!!

Which is really my biggest gripe against ivory I. Seems some changes where made to maximize profit and not to benefit the game. Or maybe I'm just a paranoid and jaded business man.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 26, 2014 11:01 pm 
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DarkWolf wrote:
Oh well I expected nothing from this release due to the fact that it was mostly just kinda thrown in the environment. By this I mean all previews in one day and no pre release.

I can honestly say that I love our art and the non CCG part of the clan. Maybe next time or someone sees something I don't. What i dislike is the inclusion of new mechanics, seems like they are throwing card design to the wall to see what sticks. What I HATE is the experienced non unique, really just feels like a money grab GO CHASE RARES!!!!

Which is really my biggest gripe against ivory I. Seems some changes where made to maximize profit and not to benefit the game. Or maybe I'm just a paranoid and jaded business man.


Not so much to maximize profit as much as not hurting the draft environment. Unique cant be common pulls in draft as they invalidate pulls and they for the most part suck as rares after you have one already.

It was an appropriate step to take with regards to non unique experienced personalities.

In my opinion the smarter move to make on their part.

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"There is only ONE emperor worthy of the right to rule, I will never cease till he takes his rightful place"

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:08 am 
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The Lucid Dream
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I don't know if the Otomo is worth paying 6 for, the Shrine and the House are both almost must runs for Spider, the House for certain, as it somewhat helps with our two auto-losses.

Sadly, our Personality base won't help our chances at all, as it's probably the worst set of Personalities of the set.

Again.

While we're the worst competitive Clan.

*SIGH*

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 9:28 am 
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TheItsyBitsySpider wrote:
DarkWolf wrote:
Oh well I expected nothing from this release due to the fact that it was mostly just kinda thrown in the environment. By this I mean all previews in one day and no pre release.

I can honestly say that I love our art and the non CCG part of the clan. Maybe next time or someone sees something I don't. What i dislike is the inclusion of new mechanics, seems like they are throwing card design to the wall to see what sticks. What I HATE is the experienced non unique, really just feels like a money grab GO CHASE RARES!!!!

Which is really my biggest gripe against ivory I. Seems some changes where made to maximize profit and not to benefit the game. Or maybe I'm just a paranoid and jaded business man.


Not so much to maximize profit as much as not hurting the draft environment. Unique cant be common pulls in draft as they invalidate pulls and they for the most part suck as rares after you have one already.

It was an appropriate step to take with regards to non unique experienced personalities.

In my opinion the smarter move to make on their part.


While I see your point of not hurting draft, as a constructed player I feel it sucks. Besides reading the design thingy and I quote the article here:

"It is a mechanical restriction, reducing the number of copies of a card you can play in a deck to one. It is sometimes a frustrating keyword for your opponent when you draw that Unique card at the right time. This can make the game feel more driven by luck than skill, and we’ve found that people tend to prefer to lose by being outplayed rather than by facing a lucky opponent. Moreover, people generally don’t enjoy opening Unique cards in booster packs, as they often have little value and can feel like a bit of a wasted pack--especially if you’ve already got one (or more!) copies of that Unique card."

They talk about 2 points here:

A) Decreasing marginal returns from opening packs. This is true no matter how many unique cards are in the set. Actually since it decreases more rapidly with uniques so you have to spend less $$$. Also after the first one you could trade the others and it helped limit the price of powerful cards. Also a booster contains rares for 9 clans and 4 different win conditions, say what
happens when I draw a rare for unicorn and hope to trade it but I'm chasing spider rares and competing with other spider players. I have to find a unicorn willing to trade and that has spider rares... this increases the "double coincidence of needs" in regards to trading. Which unique reduced as if a spider player had a spider unique he would add it to the trading pool. This is of course assuming that surplus cards go into the trade pool of said system.


B) Lucky draw. For me personally the whole point of a card game in which you shuffle cards it's to introduce RANDOMNESS and LUCK. And games going to a lucky draw aren't a big issue in fact they enhance the playing experience. Holding your breath for a card that can swing this game in your favor because you're loosing or stuck on a stalemate. God that is part of the adrenaline rush of the whole point. Look at poker waiting for a lucky flip to get a Straight Flush or be stuck with a 4 useless cards... AWESOME. What this translates is to more generic less game impacting cards......... that legends brilliantly handled by unique that automatically restricted this cards and added flavor.

What it comes down to is as a player you now have to purchase MOAR boosters to get the same efficiency per deck. So MOAR money per deck. So I regard this change as a money grab, even the fact that they are pushing draft so much is to increase sales numbers. It creates chase rares so it increases the $$$ investment per deck. The reduction of boosters per box means less rares in the trade pool. They now charge you for the draft rules, tokens and rules (this being seen from the economic perspective, the "premium" card takes space as so it reduces boosters per box (from 48 to 36) but the price per box remains unchanged, so the cost of the premiums are the lost boosters). And now we even have product placement with the new love letter mechanic. What's next Daigotsu depicted holding a bud light? :lol: (a bit of humor look for product placement bud light in youtube for reference)

I loved unique and felt it was one of the best things in L5R. And I perceive that this and the changes I mentioned are profit driven and focus on draft is the story being sold to the player base in order to justify such changes because they know that L5R is a love brand and we are willing to accept stories.

Sorry for the rant but I felt that my initial post was too simplistic.

And now back to the TNO preview tread. Love our art 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:26 am 
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CrimsonEyes wrote:
I don't know if the Otomo is worth paying 6 for, the Shrine and the House are both almost must runs for Spider, the House for certain, as it somewhat helps with our two auto-losses.


Otomo Bureaucrat is honor/dishonor meta for Kuroko Sensei Susumu decks. It caps Proclaims and other action based honor gains and losses to 2. This should help against most honor and dishonor decks.

Quote:
Sadly, our Personality base won't help our chances at all, as it's probably the worst set of Personalities of the set.


Spider received 9/10 Personalities this set. 6 with black borders, 2/3 with brown borders and 1 with a Dragon green border (Mirumoto Tsukino a 2/2 5G Destined Kensai for Spider).

Monksai received quite a bit of support this set even if it wasn't the "replace old card with a new card in your existing deck" kind. Kageto, Weapon Artist (supported by The Abbot), and Contemplative Shrine makes me wonder if a Weapon light and Kiho/Kensai action heavy deck might be viable.


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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:50 am 
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I don't disagree about Otomo Bureaucrat, just more that 6 for 5s have kind of fallen off the map in Ivory, given you can't for certain buy them to start, like you could back in previous arcs.

Especially with a 3g Stronghold in Susumu, a bad first flip means you can't buy this until turn 3.

Also, Tsukino has a 4 HR. Spider's not running her anytime soon.

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 Post subject: Re: TNO General Previews Thread!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:59 am 
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DarkWolf wrote:
A) Decreasing marginal returns from opening packs. This is true no matter how many unique cards are in the set. Actually since it decreases more rapidly with uniques so you have to spend less $$$. Also after the first one you could trade the others and it helped limit the price of powerful cards. Also a booster contains rares for 9 clans and 4 different win conditions, say what
happens when I draw a rare for unicorn and hope to trade it but I'm chasing spider rares and competing with other spider players. I have to find a unicorn willing to trade and that has spider rares... this increases the "double coincidence of needs" in regards to trading. Which unique reduced as if a spider player had a spider unique he would add it to the trading pool. This is of course assuming that surplus cards go into the trade pool of said system.


If the ratio of non-unique to unique cards printed was 3:1 what you are saying would be true, but the non-unique to unique ratio is 1:1. Unless a unique is used in at least 3 times as many decks as a non-unique card there will be a surplus of that unique card.

A rough list of general card value with examples from Emperor and Ivory in descending order:
  • General use non-uniques (Jade Pearl Inn, Know No Fear)
  • General use uniques (Peace)
  • Multi-Clan non-uniques (Sheltered Port)
  • Multi-Clan uniques (Daigotsu Hotaku XP3)
  • Single-Clan Multi-deck non-uniques
  • Single-Clan Multi-deck uniques
  • Single-Clan Single-deck non-uniques (i.e. Loyal non-Unique Personalities)
  • Single-Clan Single-deck uniques (Susumu Kuroko)

CrimsonEyes wrote:
I don't disagree about Otomo Bureaucrat, just more that 6 for 5s have kind of fallen off the map in Ivory, given you can't for certain buy them to start, like you could back in previous arcs.

Especially with a 3g Stronghold in Susumu, a bad first flip means you can't buy this until turn 3.


A problem that I suspect is why Legacy Holdings such as Forgotten Legacy are being reintroduced into the game with Iv2.

Quote:
Also, Tsukino has a 4 HR. Spider's not running her anytime soon.

Damn it, missed that. Guess she is mainly a draft personality.


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