Shinden Fu Leng


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:55 pm 
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Oni no El wrote:
Not bad. Good job! Just keep on practicing the deck and you'll eventually find out the reason why I am confident in playing this deck against military :)

Some tips:
1. Gold T1, Gold + Dude on T2 (this is to get the clout engine started as early as possible).
2. Don't bee too excited to pop any clout tokens too early. I usually maintain at least 4 at any given time until I bring a Jaru out (or at least you know that you'll have at least 4 tokens in play by the time you can bring him out).
3. Do not hesitate on using the official sanction as early as you can. I usually use the negate straightening ability the first time a dude bows who can help threaten a province.
4. Flashy Tech and Hold the walls are your favorite combo (oh yeah, replaced combat at court with hold the walls now that it's legal again!).

That's it for now. I'll add more later.

On the other hand, I wanted to test out The New Order on this deck. It's for my honor match ups because:
1. I can overtake honor decks easily given some extra turns, and this event really does the trick.
2. I will gain card advantage via counting house.

Will test it over the weekend and see how it goes.


You forgot:
3. Because I don't really lose much tempo for using it.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:36 pm 
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^What he said! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 5:49 pm 
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Does seem like a natural fit against honour decks.

Oh! I should add. Was wondering how well the gold would do without Legacies. Seems to work very well without them. Most personalities are so cheap that I burn through the Dynasty.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 6:55 pm 
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Daigotsu Yuzu wrote:
Does seem like a natural fit against honour decks.

Oh! I should add. Was wondering how well the gold would do without Legacies. Seems to work very well without them. Most personalities are so cheap that I burn through the Dynasty.


It should work pretty fine without FL, as it was designed before legacy holdings were re introduced into the game. It's up to you whether you'd want to put it in or not.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:24 am 
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I can certainly see it as a one of in the deck, replacing a marsh, just to cover those awkward times where you cycle to get one or less holdings on your first turn. It does happen after all, even with the best of shuffling.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:32 pm 
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Just wanna give a quick thanks to everyone on this thread. First two times playing this deck and it was some of the most fun games I've played in a long time.(and even more kudos since I somehow won both :D)


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:54 pm 
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Hi everybody,

First thing, thx to Oni no El for this deck, it is great fun to play.

I just changed some little things :

- I think Coronation Festival is a must have in all defensive decks, especially in Spider since it doesn't interfere with the Stronghold ability and even double it. And when you're going first, it gives it you back.
- I replaced Progressive and Hold the Wall by 3x Desperate Sacrifice. Progressive is too much card consuming to be reliable and Hold the Wall doesn't make a real difference, contrary to Encircled who wins games. On the other hand, Desperate cannot be negated (that's great) and is a good friend to Kengo and Takuan.


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:38 am 
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I agree with all your recommendations :)

And you're welcome!

Also another card worth considering for the deck is Breaking the Rhythm.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:04 am 
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I should consider Ruby Ascendance instead. I think Mantis decks will use Tsuruchi Akira a lot (Way of the Mantis, Unwanted Tutelage) and this personality is a real pain. Or so it is in my playgroup. We have a Mantis Hira sensei which goes really fast and hard naturally and even more with this personality.


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:11 am 
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daidoji perrck wrote:
I should consider Ruby Ascendance instead. I think Mantis decks will use Tsuruchi Akira a lot (Way of the Mantis, Unwanted Tutelage) and this personality is a real pain. Or so it is in my playgroup. We have a Mantis Hira sensei which goes really fast and hard naturally and even more with this personality.


A better choice even! Thanks! :D

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:47 am 
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I played the build this weekeend against Fire Phoenix, Magistrate Unicorn and Fear Spider. Lost against Phoenix, but it was before I remove my Usurpations (where the hell was my mind when I included them?).

It is very nice to see how well pure defense and force reduction does compared to my former build with honor generating bows (like Usurpation and Inexplicable Challenge).

Some cards were MVPs:
- Hasty Defenses: it totally mindscrews the opponent having to prepare against a 10, 11 or even 12 ps.
- Rethorician: 343 with that 1 honor our peeps lack.
- An Honored Guest: just amazing, the best modification maybe, makes that turn with an Unaligned and no spider peep (1 honor) become a turn with 4 honor.

Shinomen March wasn't missed at all.

Next week I'll see how does it fares against Honor and even Dishonor.


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:08 am 
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It's kinda ironic that the Susumu deck is getting this much love from players now despite the fact that it will no longer be supported due to the embrace decision (heck, even before then!) :lol:


I guess the important thing here is we now have an idea what a good base is for this type of deck. I have seen so many variants after playing in Sun and Moon, so it is all good!

Glad to see it working for you Roberto! :D

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:41 am 
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I would love to see a new Susumu political deck to run out of the Spider Clan stronghold, even with the Embrace pick. Just give us a Dishonor / Control mechanic focused around Tainting our opponent's people. That would still be honor-janking, and fit within the storyline choice.

As a secondary theme, mind you. Primary themes should still reflect the Embrace option.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:18 am 
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I think making it dishonor blurs that line between us and Scorpion a little much. Plus, the little family that could still striving to show how honorable they are, despite their brethren literally tearing the Empire down around them is quite a story.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:49 am 
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The easiest way to differentiate it would be making the Spider Dishonor deck make your opponent's people Shadowlands, then hit them for honor loss for having Shadowlands people. It would be flavorful and represent the Spider Clan spreading corruption.

I am not sure if we want to represent the Walking in the Light through theme support, however. The Clan chose to Embrace the Darkness. Our themes should represent that choice. Maintain some support, sure, for the Spider Clan players who do not want to go Tainted. Give us unTainted Susumu Courtiers and Monks, but the Clan made the choice.

Alternatively, have a Crane - Scorpion - Unicorn Sensei that lets you run Susumu Spider Clan personalities in clan. That might be more representative of the Susumu in the Onyx world.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:32 pm 
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Daigotsu's Legion
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Oni no El wrote:
It's kinda ironic that the Susumu deck is getting this much love from players now despite the fact that it will no longer be supported due to the embrace decision (heck, even before then!) :lol:


I guess the important thing here is we now have an idea what a good base is for this type of deck. I have seen so many variants after playing in Sun and Moon, so it is all good!

Glad to see it working for you Roberto! :D


Yeah, I love Susumu. They are the main reason I started playing Spider (I'm a Lion player and abandoned Mantis for Spider last arc) and my very first deck in Ivory 1 (those days, working with a high focus mechanic due to Tadaka, Ikoma Courtier and Dragon old lady). Since 20f has began, I couldn't find a way to working until I saw your deck.

I thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:27 pm 
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Roberto Wolvie wrote:
Oni no El wrote:
It's kinda ironic that the Susumu deck is getting this much love from players now despite the fact that it will no longer be supported due to the embrace decision (heck, even before then!) :lol:


I guess the important thing here is we now have an idea what a good base is for this type of deck. I have seen so many variants after playing in Sun and Moon, so it is all good!

Glad to see it working for you Roberto! :D


Yeah, I love Susumu. They are the main reason I started playing Spider (I'm a Lion player and abandoned Mantis for Spider last arc) and my very first deck in Ivory 1 (those days, working with a high focus mechanic due to Tadaka, Ikoma Courtier and Dragon old lady). Since 20f has began, I couldn't find a way to working until I saw your deck.

I thank you.


You're welcome man! :D

I guess we should also thank all the contributors to this deck, mostly honor runners from different clans as they have a better insight in running honor. Especially B-Rad since he's the OP. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun Sep 06, 2015 1:48 pm 
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BTw about Jaru. You need 6tokens to proclaim 6 not 4

I am testing these guys again... hope we will get some support before Onyx hits :cry:


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 9:38 pm 
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I doubt Evil Portents will have anything that will greatly change the way this deck could be further perfected.

Just want to say RIP Susumu forever and thank everyone for the great ideas on this Deck. It was really fun playing this. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 1:01 am 
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So here's this one crazy Susumu deck that didn't rely heavily on clout tokens, but focused rather on Takuan's trait.

The combo is to have any dude (preferably an expendable) perform Wheels within Wheels/An Act of Disdain while having caravan guards attached while 3 Takuan is out.

This deck needs more testing, but if you pull it off...

The Hidden Bastion of the Spider
Kuroko Sensei
2 Forgotten Legacy
2 Otomo Bureaucrat
3 Shinomen Marsh
3 Jiramu's Court
3 Rhetorician
3 Suana Dojo
3 Susumu Yanada
3 Susumu Kengo
3 Susumu Tanjin
3 Daigotsu Meguro
3 Susumu Takuan
3 Daigotsu Teruo
2 Coronation Festival
1 The Hooded Ronin, Descendant of Shinsei - expCW
3 The Blessing
3 Wheels within Wheels
2 Sudden Storm
3 Accepting the Choice
2 Alliance Threatened
2 A Good Death
2 Spirited Dispute
3 Caravan Guards
3 Taken Hostage
3 Desperate Sacrifice
3 An Honored Guest
3 Gempukku
3 An Act of Disdain
Ring of Fire
Ring of Earth
3 Favors
3 Visions of Darkness

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:19 pm 
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Oni no El wrote:
It's kinda ironic that the Susumu deck is getting this much love from players now despite the fact that it will no longer be supported due to the embrace decision (heck, even before then!) :lol:


I guess the important thing here is we now have an idea what a good base is for this type of deck. I have seen so many variants after playing in Sun and Moon, so it is all good!

Glad to see it working for you Roberto! :D


Playing this at Sacramento Kotei next week. Then Dueling a the next kotei, and finishing it up in oregon with Goju. Going out in style with Spider

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:04 pm 
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Go forth and conquer, my friend! :D

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 7:59 am 
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Any particular reason for Meguro over Tairao?

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 10:24 am 
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Just a quick question. Has anyone tried Daigotsu Endo in the Susumu deck as fuel for Takuan? He's probably a bit too expensive at 8 gold but is it worth it for destined, even as just a cheeky one of in the deck.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 2:01 pm 
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Lots of people have used Endo in honor.

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