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 Post subject: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:13 pm 
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Sexy Beast
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Deck base credits to B-Rad.

Link: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1552

So funny story, I played this yesterday on a 7-man tourney, placed 1st against Crab Shuggies and 2 Shika Mantis decks. This deck also has 4 pre-games against Phoenix, Lion, Unicorn and Spider to which it all won. Haven't tested against Honor/Dishonor but I think I know how it will end, and it will not be too well. :D

This deck has explosive gains after T4 (around 4 to 6 honor). Highest ever was 10 after bringing a Jaru out for 6, 2 from Temple fortresses, and another 2 from Terumoto plus honored sensei. I am thinking of another build where it focuses on using fortifications to take advantage of our PS, but for now:

Yogo Junzo's Angels
Kuroko Sensei

3 Terumoto
3 Demiyah
3 Kengo
3 Mizuki
3 Tanjin
3 Yanada
3 Jaru
3 Takuan

3 Marsh
3 Honored Sensei
3 Summer Court
3 Suana Dojo
3 Temple Fortress
1 Counting House

3 A growing Rift - hinders T3-T5 attacks, but is also useful if you already have clouted the whole board leaving your opponents limited choices for attackers)
3 Flashy Technique - very powerful since we have a high PS.
3 Inexplicable Challenge - I'm still not too sold on this card, esp in an attachment based environment. 2 honor is nice but I would rather put something more defensive which either bows a unit or gives force redux.
2 Lookout Post - this was originally a block supply but changed it last minute because i knew i'd be facing mantis. But surprisingly, I didn't need it against them afterall since my PS was really tough to crack.
3 Your Past - can't go home w/o it
2 Control - really helpful against super units
3 Imperial Summons - never fails me
3 Strategic Withdrawal - Remove your presence while giving a force jab
3 Oppression - Removes your pressence while giving a province boost
2 Combat at court - removes your presence while giving a blanket force jab
3 Alliance Threatened - combos great with the 3 aforementioned cards
3 Encircled Terrain - your trump card
1 Hidden Mach - very powerful card. filter your fate, then gives you that last minute game changing action (flashy tech, growing rift, Jaru, imperial summons). I'm thinking of making this a 3-of
1 Progressive - didn't build aroubd this, but it's nice to have one

3 Official Sanction - another control card. I use it mostly to negate next straighten more than outright bow (due mainly to me having 2 ph peeps)

Void
Earth

So how did I beat mantis?



Kuroko blackmailed Shika. :lol:

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Last edited by Oni no El on Sun May 17, 2015 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 10:46 pm 
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Looks soild. Some interesting choices, like no Forgotten Legacy.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 12:55 am 
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kakita_shiro wrote:
Looks soild. Some interesting choices, like no Forgotten Legacy.


No special reason for its exclusion, except for I never had a game that I got gold screwed that bad, plus the holding scheme is already tight as it is. I need to have 3's for each holding except counting for consistency.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:43 am 
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I think you can drop a Summer Court; you're already playing Your Past.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 9:38 am 
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kakita_shiro wrote:
I think you can drop a Summer Court; you're already playing Your Past.


Summer Court is a more reliable way to straighten the sensei than a fate card. Not to mention, it fits very nicely in to the 3gc scheme. Why would you take it out?

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:45 am 
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Where is your samurai for control?

Besides that, yeah... Susumu is great right now.

Love my susumu babies! <3

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:31 pm 
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TheItsyBitsySpider wrote:
Where is your samurai for control?

Besides that, yeah... Susumu is great right now.

Love my susumu babies! <3



Terumoto is a samurai

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 2:49 pm 
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Sparks wrote:
kakita_shiro wrote:
I think you can drop a Summer Court; you're already playing Your Past.


Summer Court is a more reliable way to straighten the sensei than a fate card. Not to mention, it fits very nicely in to the 3gc scheme. Why would you take it out?


What Sparks said is true. But if I will make room for FL, I would take a marsh out.



And thank you, Dr. Ryan, for answering the question for me.



Edit: added link to deck reference

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Dr_Ryan wrote:
TheItsyBitsySpider wrote:
Where is your samurai for control?

Besides that, yeah... Susumu is great right now.

Love my susumu babies! <3



Terumoto is a samurai


*relooks at card*

Oh hey, another great reason to run this guy!

Thanks for pointing it out!

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Spider Clan ● Loyal ● Samurai ● The Blackest Sword ● Necromancer ● Unique

"There is only ONE emperor worthy of the right to rule, I will never cease till he takes his rightful place"

Played Ide Doburu at the 2014 Winter Court.


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 3:59 pm 
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Are you going to update this with thunderous acclaim? Some new fate cards seem promising.


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 5:16 pm 
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OnlyTheSpiderIsSafe wrote:
Are you going to update this with thunderous acclaim? Some new fate cards seem promising.


I haven't because I do not see anything worthwhile from THA. What do you have in mind?

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:00 am 
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Hasty Defenses seems like a good card to run, but I'm not sure the gold scheme can handle it. The only thing I could see pulling for it is Honored Sensei, but I don't know how well it works in the deck. I only count 6 people out of clan that triggers it.

Rhetorician seems like a great 343. Have you considered looking at it? Looking at the deck, you might be able to manage putting it in the Marsh slot.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:32 am 
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Susumu Nohiru wrote:
Hasty Defenses seems like a good card to run, but I'm not sure the gold scheme can handle it. The only thing I could see pulling for it is Honored Sensei, but I don't know how well it works in the deck. I only count 6 people out of clan that triggers it.

Rhetorician seems like a great 343. Have you considered looking at it? Looking at the deck, you might be able to manage putting it in the Marsh slot.


I've tested with Hasty and it's actually a pretty decent card, except against shika mantis match ups. Rhetorician is ok. Cards that you can take out for these would be the marsh, so I definitely agree.

Never ever take out honored sensei, as you can react with more than 1 even if for just 1 unaligned.

Right now, I am trying to retrofit the deck to be able to go up against honor and dishonor. With that, I have reconsidered using rhetorician.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:42 am 
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How is it looking versus dishonor right now? To be honest, with the deck I'm currently running, I just take the loss to the chin and bulldoze through anything else that stands in my way.


Did you know Fire Chickens are quite delectable? Mantis aren't that bad either.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:47 am 
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Susumu Nohiru wrote:
How is it looking versus dishonor right now? To be honest, with the deck I'm currently running, I just take the loss to the chin and bulldoze through anything else that stands in my way.


Did you know Fire Chickens are quite delectable? Mantis aren't that bad either.


Haven't tested against DH. But I am practicing my dice rolling skills! :lol:

Btw, changes I made to have a fighting chance against another honor is I put in 3x favors and 2x Rhetorician which I use to primarily give them honor loss. I then made room for 2x Issei for me to fetch back Favors. Surprisingly, this has been effective as I got a 2-1 record against Phx Honor, and my potency against military wasn't affected despite the changes as I got 2 wins against lion military.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:28 am 
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How has Temple Fortress worked for you? With a 3G box, seeing one T1 is painful.


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:02 pm 
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MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
How has Temple Fortress worked for you? With a 3G box, seeing one T1 is painful.


As mentioned in the original thread, it's never a T1 buy. But once it's out, it's fantastic! Way better than Kabuki.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 5:07 pm 
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Do cards like an honored guest and pure intent make the deck get sidetracked? I know the playstyle for susumu honor is far off from regular honor I am used to. We can't play cards like usurpation already.


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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:43 pm 
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OnlyTheSpiderIsSafe wrote:
Do cards like an honored guest and pure intent make the deck get sidetracked? I know the playstyle for susumu honor is far off from regular honor I am used to. We can't play cards like usurpation already.


A susumu deck is not your conventional honor. It's like a bomb waiting to explode.

You focus on getting as many clout token on the table the soonest, which is why it is important to get a dude out by T2. If your opponent is careless, you'd find yourself reaching 30 in no time. The fate is designed not to get you more honor faster, but to prevent your opponent from taking any provinces until you reach 25+ honor. Once you get the clout running, the sensei will take care of the rest.

The key is actually Susumu Jaru, so don't pop those tokens yet until you get one out, or at least make sure you have at least 4 tokens at any given time.

Same thing against honor, get as many clout tokens as fast as you can. Every breath he takes, every move he makes, every bond he breaks, every step he takes, you'll be gaining honor faster than him! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:01 pm 
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Oni no El wrote:
I then made room for 2x Issei for me to fetch back Favors. Surprisingly, this has been effective as I got a 2-1 record against Phx Honor, and my potency against military wasn't affected despite the changes as I got 2 wins against lion military.
Susumu Issei only lets you return a Political Battle action to your hand.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:33 pm 
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kakita_shiro wrote:
Oni no El wrote:
I then made room for 2x Issei for me to fetch back Favors. Surprisingly, this has been effective as I got a 2-1 record against Phx Honor, and my potency against military wasn't affected despite the changes as I got 2 wins against lion military.
Susumu Issei only lets you return a Political Battle action to your hand.


Good catch! I stand corrected.

But never the less, getting in Favors still helped me in fighting against another honor deck.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:44 am 
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I've almost completed buiding this deck myself to give me something different from what I am use to (That is, my Military fear and my original Crane Duelists from Ivory). Just straight honour is something completely new so hopefully I'll do well with it.

Anyway. Just a quick question. What did you remove to place in the 3 Favours? I've already replaced 1 Yanada with an Issei because that is what I have, but do you think that I should be looking at a different personality to take out instead of Yanada?

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 3:12 pm 
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Daigotsu Yuzu wrote:
I've almost completed buiding this deck myself to give me something different from what I am use to (That is, my Military fear and my original Crane Duelists from Ivory). Just straight honour is something completely new so hopefully I'll do well with it.

Anyway. Just a quick question. What did you remove to place in the 3 Favours? I've already replaced 1 Yanada with an Issei because that is what I have, but do you think that I should be looking at a different personality to take out instead of Yanada?


I removed inexplicable challenge.

As for Issei, he will stick around despite my misunderstanding of him being able to fetch favors. The +5 lobby bonus really helps against against your opponent, regardless of deck type but most esp against honor. So I wouldn't really suggest you take Yanada out as he gives another +5 lobby bonus as well. Instead, I removed 1 Takuan and a Mizuki to place him in.

I'm glad to hear that you're close to building this deck. It's a lot of fun to play, and is not actually a push over but very competitive as well. Good luck man! :D

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:36 pm 
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Thanks tested it out today (minus two Yanada, the Controls, and the Lookout posts)

The deck was super fun to play. Against a lion deck, lost with 40 honour. Came down to encircled terrain to try and save my last province but she managed to battleship her one guy to 10 force just. Damn you tactician. Also, missing a full set of Yanada and 1 Issei hurt because I couldn't lobby for a good while at the start.

Against a Scorpion deck, his fate is built quite defensively so he basically had a dead hand for most of the game. Picked him apart in battles and he never took a province. (I'm the first honour deck built in our playgroup so it's not something we build against usually).

Against a crab deck (That runs Br'nn, voitagi, skeletal troops.) we both stalled, didn't see a summer court or a your past and lost very quickly, ended on 19 honour. Made a bunch of early mistakes as well which put the nail in the coffin.

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 Post subject: Re: 20F Susumu Honor
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:49 pm 
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Not bad. Good job! Just keep on practicing the deck and you'll eventually find out the reason why I am confident in playing this deck against military :)

Some tips:
1. Gold T1, Gold + Dude on T2 (this is to get the clout engine started as early as possible).
2. Don't bee too excited to pop any clout tokens too early. I usually maintain at least 4 at any given time until I bring a Jaru out (or at least you know that you'll have at least 4 tokens in play by the time you can bring him out).
3. Do not hesitate on using the official sanction as early as you can. I usually use the negate straightening ability the first time a dude bows who can help threaten a province.
4. Flashy Tech and Hold the walls are your favorite combo (oh yeah, replaced combat at court with hold the walls now that it's legal again!).

That's it for now. I'll add more later.

On the other hand, I wanted to test out The New Order on this deck. It's for my honor match ups because:
1. I can overtake honor decks easily given some extra turns, and this event really does the trick.
2. I will gain card advantage via counting house.

Will test it over the weekend and see how it goes.

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