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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:21 am 
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hi. My first post here and I just registered because im alarmed at the direction the story is taking. I have loved l5r since emerald edition and would have loved it since imperial if somebody had told me it existed. Unfortunately l5r has all but died in my country or I would still be playing the ccg.

So there are actually many sources of potential conflict in the game. You have the suggestion in the forums for the phoenix to be fed up on all the clans and bring tengoku down on everyone with the dragon as potential advisers (not their path choice just as a potential story focus). You have the mantis or the purple pony clan who could potentially team up with the l5r versions of the romans and act as their administrators for a conquered rokugan. Both of which may actually draw some factions to support them but instead we have another jigokuhuehuehue story.

Well fine we are here now l5r team does not have anything more creative to go with so we have to make it work. The main concern from everyone is how to prevent this from degenerating into an 8v1 gangbang which we are well on our way to having.

The story team has promised nuance, motivations, etc. To be fair to them this fiction was actually good. nice twists among characters we love most unexpected.

The problem is it does not achieve the prevention of the gangbang. It actually shows an alarming disconnect and lack of understanding from the l5r team and their playerbase (im not just limiting this to the story team. Im including everyone as anyone could have seen this).

In the onset of this exercise all the clans were already prepared to go to war with the spider. Just look at their player driven path options. Most of them are there because the original choices were not anti spider enough! If clans could pick a crab option of oppose the darkness with everything they would. Someone asked here why this fiction is not discussed in other forums. why? because it does nothing to change the path they are on.

This leaves us with 8 paladins and what is going to be the most boring fiction in the next 2 years.

Story team promised nuance reason for other clans to support empire. We have a story here which can be viewed as a betrayal from either side. Viewed from a vacuum with no knowledge of the player base it lives up to its promise.

In reality it does nothing to incent clans to support the spider. The only thing that may have worked is the total and unconscionable betrayal of the helpless spider by the cruel vindictive empress after being used as cannon fodder to claim the colonies.

That's it. That's the only thing that has any remote possibility of swaying anyone to the side of the spider. Is that a terrible characterization and something that iweko would never do ? probably but since we went down the shadowlandshuehuehue path again that's the only thing we are left with.

To be clear even a fiction where iweko makes a promise in blood to tengoku to protect all spiders and sealing it with the blood of her first born and then immediately taking a katana and slaying every last spider woman and child while crucifying their corpses after in the strongest imitation of rokugani tyrants may not be enough to sway any clans to support the spider. But at least they would think about it.

This fiction which is actually a good story has to be classified as terrible as it shows 0 understanding of the audience nor will it set out to accomplish its aims.

The premise for this arc was already very poor and this is not a great start.


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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:30 am 
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Shawn Carman wrote:
I will be happy to answer any questions you might have.


Am I sexeh? :ninjafight:

More on topic: I'd like to remind everyone here that we are still (eagerly!) awaiting the result of the Clan paths votes. Regardless of how you feel about the current state of the Spider, the future will be shaped by the result of your votes, and I for one can't wait to write the stories which will come out of that!

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:38 am 
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vlad3theimpaler wrote:
I don't get why people (mostly Audax) keep saying that Iweko can't be wrong, or lie. What's the justifiction for this? She has divine insight, not omniscience. If she knew eveything, she woudn't need to keep advisors around, like Susumu himself, whom she retained specifically so that he could keep her informed about Daigotsu.

And I've never heard anything before about her being unable to lie. Where is that coming from?

Yeah, I've been wondering about this too.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:12 am 
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So, one thing that no one is also discussing? But that this is effectively not just pulling a coup on Daigotsu Kanpeki, but it is also removing Susumu Kuroko from power as well. The Emperor is offhandedly punishing Kuroko by removing her rightful control of her own family, despite her having done literally nothing wrong. No matter what you think of Kanpeki or Daigotsu, Susumu served Iweko I loyally, literally dying to save her Shogun. And for his loyal service, he was raised to Dark Fortune status by Daigotsu.

By removing Kanpeki from the championship of the Spider and supplanting Kuroko with Shibatsu, Seiken sought to remove BOTH major leaders of the Spider Clan in a single action. And say what you want about Kanpeki...

Susumu Kuroko deserves to be the daimyo of the Susumu family.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:19 am 
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Hello guys.

Shawn, I would be interested to hear your personal views on this; Based on this fiction alone do you feel any sympathy for Kanpeki and the Spider? Would you support them? I agree that everyone will interpret this in a different way and wonder what you feel as a player, and not as a member of the story team.

For me, I would have liked a bit more interaction with the other Clan Champions before the scene ended to get the other player bases involved, and a bit more recrimination on Seiken.

"So I am to be replaced?" said Kanpeki "Has my leadership of the Spider been incompetent? Has my service and loyalty to the throne been inadequate? The Empress ordered us to conquer the colonies, and we obeyed willingly and at great cost to our clan. The colonies were tamed by the blood of the Spider, had you simply hoped my line would die in those jungles making a stronger Empire for you in which we had no place?"

The fire of betrayal burns in Kanpeki's eyes as he turns to Mirumoto Shikei.

"The Dragon were the stewards of the Spider in our transition to Great Clan. Their duty was to guide the Spider and ensure we earned our place in the Emerald Empire, perhaps it is by your assessment that Iweko Seiken has come to this decision. Tell me, Did I fail? Has the clan I have built under your guidance been deemed unworthy? If so then your failure must be equal to mine. Will Iweko Miaka be made the new daimyo of Mirumoto? This is an insult to the Dragon as much as the Spider. I invite you to remember that it was also your duty to protect the Spider from those who would seek to destroy them simply for existing, from those who would attack us without provocation. Is this attack on the Daigotsu justified, or are we being punished simply for the name we bare? You are our allies and our guardians, will you allow this?"

"Please my Lord" returning his gaze to Seiken "tell me why I alone will not be allowed to serve you as I have served your mother?"


Unfortunately I don't have time to write more as I am at work, but a bit of interaction with other champions and Shibatsu to get some other perspectives and get more of the fan base involved would have given this more weight and allowed others to question where they stand. I appreciate no-one really questions the emperor openly so maybe the other champions would have remained quiet. Also, the whole Diagotsu-Iweko debate is muddying the water of this Seiken-Kanpeki debate, they are two completely separate things that have now been merged and unfairly tip the scales.

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Last edited by Dahawi on Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:51 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:34 am 
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Mr. Carman -

When should we expect Thunderous Acclaim 2?

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:08 am 
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Spinner wrote:
vlad3theimpaler wrote:
I don't get why people (mostly Audax) keep saying that Iweko can't be wrong, or lie. What's the justifiction for this? She has divine insight, not omniscience. If she knew eveything, she woudn't need to keep advisors around, like Susumu himself, whom she retained specifically so that he could keep her informed about Daigotsu.

And I've never heard anything before about her being unable to lie. Where is that coming from?

Yeah, I've been wondering about this too.


Well, this isn't a real setting. It's Rokugan. The Kharmic Wheel? it exists, it's right there. If you act incorrectly you will be born as an eta, if you are good you will pass on to The Realm of the Blessed Ancestors. When the freaking universe go out of their way and name a new Emperor/Empress they go full steam ahead. It's not like she can't lie, from what I understood is that everything she says is Truth. So even if she tried to lie, their sole voice would kinda change a little the world as to make what she just spoke, well, real. Thus the use of the Voice, who can actually make mistakes, 'lie' or withhold information.

And seriously, with the new info about 'honorable' and the taint, the Scorpion is one of the clans that are pretty liberals with the definition of Honor, and there is a shadowlands in the middle of it lands. Who the heck close a deal in which their samurai pretty much are getting tainted without their knowledge :s.


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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:12 am 
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Spinner wrote:
vlad3theimpaler wrote:
I don't get why people (mostly Audax) keep saying that Iweko can't be wrong, or lie. What's the justifiction for this? She has divine insight, not omniscience. If she knew eveything, she woudn't need to keep advisors around, like Susumu himself, whom she retained specifically so that he could keep her informed about Daigotsu.

And I've never heard anything before about her being unable to lie. Where is that coming from?

Yeah, I've been wondering about this too.


i would hazard to guess that its not kosher for the representative of the heavens on earth to engage in behavior more becoming of Jigoku. deception and betrayal are probably verboten. thats just a guess though.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:17 am 
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Well, lying is dishonourable. And the Emperor or Empress is supposed to be of unimpeachable honour.

(Oh hi there, Hantei #16! Carry on...)

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:30 am 
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Yeah, but just because she thinks something is true doesn't mean it is. I'm not saying Daigotsu was going to hold to his end of the bargain indefinitely, but from his point of view he probably wasn't lying at all.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:47 am 
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Yes, I said that exact thing on the previous page. Emperors and Empresses are not supposed to lie, but that doesn't mean they don't. And even if Iweko genuinely holds to that, she is still capable of being mistaken.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 8:52 am 
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Daidoji Tacticus wrote:
Yes, I said that exact thing on the previous page. Emperors and Empresses are not supposed to lie, but that doesn't mean they don't. And even if Iweko genuinely holds to that, she is still capable of being mistaken.


i generally agree, but it should be noted that unlike her kids, Iweko I has some divine juju. Not unlike how Hantei was pretty solid but his descendants... mixed results. not entirely the same thing, but similar.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:07 am 
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My issue is that even if the Empress lies, her status makes it truth. Whoever she says is a traitor is considered a traitor in the whole of the Empire, at least publicly. You cannot, must not contradict the Empress. She said that Daigotsu attempted treachery, so in the eyes of Rokugan, he did. Should Kanpeki contradict, he is a traitor, too, and all who follow him.

That's the corner I'm talking about. There is just no way that anyone, let alone any clan, now siding with Kanpeki is not treason. If people wouldn't be public witnesses and it wasn't the Empress making that claim, then maybe. But how it was written, Kanpeki and the Spider stand with the back to the wall, no wriggle room there, no ambiguity.

It will be interesting to see what happens, and if we'll end up with two Spider Clans now. That would be interesting, and would have happened as soon as Kanpeki accepted the Taint, because Tainted aren't allowed as Spider leaders. But the conflict between Kanpeki and Seiken should have left the pissing contest between Iweko and Daigotsu out and it should have been civilised.

Maybe Kanpeki retorting that Hida Kisada's ancestry includes someone who sacrificed his son to Fu Leng and marched against the capitol, or that Shibatsu's line also includes ancestry to a dark goddess, Kyoso. Storming was boorish and, in my opinion, not in accordance to the setting where letting a cup slip at the wrong time causes your death. Kanpeki did learn how to behave at Imperial Court, in public and the outrage seems so very much out of character for an Imperial-trained Champion.

But it cannot be helped, it cannot be undone.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:54 am 
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daigotsu cielago wrote:
Daidoji Tacticus wrote:
Yes, I said that exact thing on the previous page. Emperors and Empresses are not supposed to lie, but that doesn't mean they don't. And even if Iweko genuinely holds to that, she is still capable of being mistaken.


i generally agree, but it should be noted that unlike her kids, Iweko I has some divine juju. Not unlike how Hantei was pretty solid but his descendants... mixed results. not entirely the same thing, but similar.


If Iweko were always right, then I think a great many things in her reign would have gone differently. For instance, the year or so before the Destroyer War would have seen a massive deployment of other Clans' troops to reinforce the Kaiu Wall - or perhaps the day of her ascension would have seen the Mantis sent to foil the Cult of Ruhmal in the Ivory Kingdoms again (because goodness knows those dreadful gaijin are helpless against their own villains without samurai to save them). She doesn't need the gempukku gang to hare around the countryside looking for that last Black Scroll, she has it collected by trustworthy agents on day 0. Etc etc.

Audax wrote:
My issue is that even if the Empress lies, her status makes it truth. Whoever she says is a traitor is considered a traitor in the whole of the Empire, at least publicly. You cannot, must not contradict the Empress. She said that Daigotsu attempted treachery, so in the eyes of Rokugan, he did. Should Kanpeki contradict, he is a traitor, too, and all who follow him.

That's the corner I'm talking about. There is just no way that anyone, let alone any clan, now siding with Kanpeki is not treason. If people wouldn't be public witnesses and it wasn't the Empress making that claim, then maybe. But how it was written, Kanpeki and the Spider stand with the back to the wall, no wriggle room there, no ambiguity.

It will be interesting to see what happens, and if we'll end up with two Spider Clans now. That would be interesting, and would have happened as soon as Kanpeki accepted the Taint, because Tainted aren't allowed as Spider leaders. But the conflict between Kanpeki and Seiken should have left the pissing contest between Iweko and Daigotsu out and it should have been civilised.

Maybe Kanpeki retorting that Hida Kisada's ancestry includes someone who sacrificed his son to Fu Leng and marched against the capitol, or that Shibatsu's line also includes ancestry to a dark goddess, Kyoso. Storming was boorish and, in my opinion, not in accordance to the setting where letting a cup slip at the wrong time causes your death. Kanpeki did learn how to behave at Imperial Court, in public and the outrage seems so very much out of character for an Imperial-trained Champion.

But it cannot be helped, it cannot be undone.


It's treason if you accept the legitimacy of the Iweko line... and if you accept that, there are no possible circumstances under which Kanpeki deposing them would be anything but treason. If you don't accept their legitimacy, then Iweko's decrees are meaningless.

There are many valid reasons to take issue with the situation presented here, but "Iweko's testimony makes Kanpeki a traitor" isn't one of them. There is no way to depose the government without being a traitor in the eyes of that government. That's, like, the most treasony form of treason there is.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:07 am 
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Daidoji Tacticus wrote:
If Iweko were always right, then I think a great many things in her reign would have gone differently....

False assumption. A correct example or counter argument would be to show an instance of her Divine Empress is making a mistake.


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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:15 am 
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Well, OK, if you want it stated in those terms...

It was a mistake for Iweko to not reinforce the Crab in advance of the Destroyer War, thus allowing the Crab and Scorpion lands to be overrun and so heavily damaged they required a generation or more to recover.

It was a mistake for her to allow the Ebon Daughter to run wild through the Empire spreading plague rather than having her ganked by a Scorpion ninja squad on entry to Rokugan.

It was a mistake for her to allow a Black Scroll to lie about unattended in Scorpion territory rather than retrieving it to place it beyond Kali-Ma's reach and use it, or not, at the optimal time.

It was a mistake for her to wait so long to name an heir, to the point where Rokugan came to the brink of civil war and many thousands of samurai died pointlessly in the fighting over the succession (this one doesn't even come with the excuse of not having the right information, "maintain a clear line of succession" is Monarchy 101).

It was a mistake for her to allow her successor to move against Kanpeki in this fashion, which we know will result in him unleashing Jigoku on Rokugan, seizing power, and very possibly holding it for decades.

Shall I go on?

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:33 am 
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Lol, I should have just pointed out to An Illustrate Book of Bad Arguments

All of what you point as 'mistakes' aren't mistakes, they can be seen as bad planning, but their aren't truly her mistakes. Basically because to prove a mistake you have to prove that the said person actually made a wrong judgment of something or blunder at a decision. All your points are parts of the setting where we don't know the reasoning and thus we can't make conclusions out of them. Wasn't Iweko preparing for this? Wasn't their choices made to, partially, reduce the strain in her followers and bring a stronger Rokugan after Onyx? You don't know and thus you can't prove there is a wrong judgment.

Unless of course you quote a fiction in which she actually shows a 'daaamn Satsy, I didn't plan for thing to go this way'. I haven't been up to date in the fictions, so I really don't know, thus my : "Show an instance of her Divine Empress is making a mistake.".


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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:49 am 
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This is a distinction without a difference. What separates "bad planning" from "wrong judgements" or "blunders at a decision"? Why do the latter two constitute a mistake, and not the former?

And I'm sorry, but "it might turn out for the best in the end!" is a completely vacuous argument. Precisely the same logic could be deployed in favour of anyone being infallible. We do not have perfect knowledge of the reasoning behind or the ultimate consequences of anyone's decisions, and so we cannot rule out with 100% certainty the possibility that they were the best choice in the end. Accepting this logic would deprive us of the ability to ever make any judgement about whether anyone ever had made a mistake about anything. If you need to render the term "mistake" devoid of meaning in order to make the claim that Iweko never made a mistake... well, I think you've just made my argument for me.

The only reasonable alternative to "Her Divine Magnificence has made errors" is "Her Divine Magnificence is flawlessly carrying out a plan to cause appalling damage to Rokugan". I think the latter is a vastly less charitable view to take, but maybe that's just me.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:00 am 
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Sorry but if you don't like the definition on 'mistake' you can go ahead and make a case about it with the relevant organization that supervise it to change it (in spanish we have the Real Acadamia Española. Something like 'The Royal Spanish Academy' ww.rae.com, it's pretty neat). Until then to make a mistake is defined as 'an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge,etc'. To prove it you have to prove that there were a miscalculation, or misjudgment. Last time I checked, I must assume innocence until proof of the contrary (and again, I am not trying to antagonize you, srly, just point out an instance in which there is proof of her mistake, not some wall of text with what you perceive as actions that the empress should have taken to reduce an outcome that you wouldn't have preferred for Rokugan).

And correctly using the word doesn't devoid it of any meaning or give you a single point. Bayushi Miyako acknowledged her miscalculation, but only AFTER the whole deal was ended. Likewise, the omni-potent writers could make Iweko I to show grieve because she misjudged Khali-ma or the actions of his son. The ST hasn't done anything of the sort and thus we can only assume that is part of her plans. Because, and to revive that particular part of the discussion, she is a DIVINE Empress and by the looks of it, she is even more 'powerful' than the original Hantei. Divine, as in the universe is endorsing her decisions.


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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:24 am 
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Soshi Narumo wrote:
Sorry but if you don't like the definition on 'mistake' you can go ahead and make a case about it with the relevant organization that supervise it to change it (in spanish we have the Real Acadamia Española. Something like 'The Royal Spanish Academy' ww.rae.com, it's pretty neat).


English doesn't have one of those.

Quote:
Until then to make a mistake is defined as 'an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge,etc'. To prove it you have to prove that there were a miscalculation, or misjudgment. Last time I checked, I must assume innocence until proof of the contrary (and again, I am not trying to antagonize you, srly, just point out an instance in which there is proof of her mistake, not some wall of text with what you perceive as actions that the empress should have taken to reduce an outcome that you would have preferred for Rokugan).


What possible proof would you accept? You've dismissed an array of cases of Iweko's decisions turning out appallingly and without discernible payoff of any sort on the grounds that... what? Iweko herself hasn't admitted that they were mistakes? Does she remain infallible in your eyes as long as she doesn't personally admit otherwise?

Quote:
And correctly using the word doesn't devoid it of any meaning or give you a single point. Bayushi Miyako acknowledged her miscalculation, but only AFTER the whole deal was ended. Likewise, the omni-potent writers could make Iweko I to show grieve because she misjudged Khali-ma or the actions of his son. The ST hasn't done anything of the sort and thus we can only assume that is part of her plans.


No, we do not need to assume anything of the sort. We haven't seen her expressing grief or regret over how things turned out... nor have we seen her expressing glee, satisfaction, indifference, boredom, or any other response at all. Iweko is an entirely closed book to us. The only basis by which we can assess her decisions is how they turned out, and many of her decisions have turned out appallingly. So either they were intended to turn out appallingly (which makes her evil, even compared to other Rokugani leaders), or else they were supposed to turn out otherwise and didn't, which makes them mistakes.

Quote:
Because, and to revive that particular part of the discussion, she is a DIVINE Empress and by the looks of it, she is even more 'powerful' than the original Hantei. Divine, as in the universe is endorsing her decisions.


Iweko had barely gotten the Throne warm when Rokugan was invaded by an army of Rakshasa-bots who proceeded to set half of it on fire and open a gateway to hell in the middle of Rokugan. And her selection of heir is about to be marked by Jigoku finishing the job. This is the universe showing its approval?

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:53 am 
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If you aren't capable of showing proof that Iweko I made a mistake in her planning, then this discussion has no meaning. Your 'proofs' only show facts that happened, not that Iweko I had an error in her planning or desires. Show that she actually didn't want anything of that to happen and you instantly get a proof, as simply as that.

I will wait for the TC fiction in which it all blows in her face, it will be epic 8-)

Quote:
Iweko had barely gotten the Throne warm when Rokugan was invaded by an army of Rakshasa-bots who proceeded to set half of it on fire and open a gateway to hell in the middle of Rokugan. And her selection of heir is about to be marked by Jigoku finishing the job. This is the universe showing its approval?


Well, Toturi almost got the entire universe undone and the First Hantei actually was faring worse in the fight so ...I will say, yes, Iweko the first is actually going better than the other 2, and she haven't had Kami walking the Earth. Sadly for Rokugan's heroes, Onyx is no Day of Thunder (that could change in the future). There is no danger of the human race to disappear so as universal things go the fact that Jigoku will walk over Ningen-Do is a minor situation. Tengoku ce3rtainly doesn't mind that much, in KYD they simply went away...and that was a failed Day of Thunder.


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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:02 pm 
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Soshi Narumo wrote:
If you aren't capable of showing proof that Iweko I made a mistake in her planning, then this discussion has no meaning. Your 'proofs' only show facts that happened, not that Iweko I had an error in her planning or desires. Show that she actually didn't want anything of that to happen and you instantly get a proof, as simply as that.

I will wait for the TC fiction in which it all blows in her face, it will be epic 8-)


I wont give you a mistake, I'll give you her flat out being wrong.

In the Imperial Archives that came out this year it mentions a clear mistake and breach of law and protocol she made when she appointed Utaku Zo-Sia. The right to rule in her stead belongs solely to the Shogun and by appointing a regent she openly broke the checks and balances inherent in the Shoguns position. This is a word of God example of her clearly making a mistake, one that Taigo could have called her on in full right, but didn't due to his own personal reasons. There, a perfect example of a mistake, not a "But its for the best" bullshit which doesnt work. She is clearly acting wrongly, in a way that in no shape is legal under the system. Infallible and breaking the laws established do not coincide.

Your definition is:
Quote:
Until then to make a mistake is defined as 'an error in action, calculation, opinion, or judgment caused by poor reasoning, carelessness, insufficient knowledge,etc'. To prove it you have to prove that there were a miscalculation, or misjudgment.


Boom, she made a legal error that was a misjudgement of her authority at best, and an open attempt to subvert the only man with authority in that position wrongly and illegally at worse.

Iweko's infallibility is just a social defense, employed by every emperor before her. The truth is that its not actually a thing. She CAN be wrong. She uses a "voice" an hides from mortals as a play to up the belief in this social defense as again is stated by the Imperial Archives.

Sorry but your wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:23 pm 
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Daigotsu's Legion
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Thank you! :D
I have been asking for a proof from the beginning.

Edit: Damn, but that doesn't prove it either. As the head of the State she can change thing, like, for example, who does what. I mean, she just appointed his son as head of a family in a Clan. She can certainly put someone in a charge that wasn't actually part of the Celestial order at all.
I mean the Toturi dynasty named Fortune a heimin, the scandal.

Quote:
Boom, she made a legal error that was a misjudgement of her authority at best, and an open attempt to subvert the only man with authority in that position wrongly and illegally at worse.


She defines the legally of any action. That's the whole point in being emperor (or a deluded dictator :roll: ). If she appoint someone else to the position then its legal. If that made a certain fellow fell bad about himself, well, too bad but that's not proof that she made a mistake. Just that someone didn't get the position he felt entitled to

Dude, I had actually got happy. Don't play with my scorpion feelings :(.


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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:31 pm 
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To (mis)appropriate a quote - she IS the Law. She can do WHATEVER THE F SHE WANTS.


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 Post subject: Re: IA Fiction Thunderous Acclaim 1 (Kanpeki, Shibatsu)
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:51 pm 
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A Gentleman and a Scholar
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MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
To (mis)appropriate a quote - she IS the Law. She can do WHATEVER THE F SHE WANTS.


I demand a pic of Iweko with a Judge Dredd helmet shopped on.


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