Shi-Tien Yen-Wang wrote:
You are assuming that if Shibatsu won then the 20F fiction would have been the same.
How Shiabatsu screwed the spider would have been different for sure (and probably WAY more interesting then Seiken by FAR) but the starter fiction points out that he STILL would have screwed us in the long run and that Hoards was the direction before the emperor was even decided. Implying that the Heir ever mattered in the long run is not really useful now.
"Shiabatsu made Promises. Seiken did as well, in his own fasion. They are not, neither of them, compatible with what has gone before. I have little confidence that the day for which I have so long worked, my whole clan has so far worked, will arrive in the near future."
Is pretty damning to either heir's abilities to keep us from turning to hoards. Our entire clan letter from last year, our entire purpose to put Shiabatsu on the throne is ultimately for naught. This was written before WC4 was concluded, decided well before the emperor. Then you have:
"The Spider will serve no master that does not also serve them,"
and my favorite:
And if the Spider are denied any chance at ever ruling the empire, then I will see it destroyed instead."
Are both also big, flashing signs that NO amount of Pro- Great Clan input could stop where we are going. Celestial's win for Spider to be a great clan is being overturned no matter which heir wins. All we were deciding was what flavor of Spider turning we would see, when it was advertised in EVERYTHING that a win for Shiabatsu would have seen spider improve in the empire, instead of turning. All you have to do is look at WC4 spider players and the effort they gave, even trying to out the Goju, to retain clan status and see it grow. Progressive spider were advertised as wanting to become more like the empire, traditionalists wanted all out war.
If this fiction never was shown then we could have all simply blamed Seiken and the whole "the heir mattered" argument could have been used, but this shows that WC4's players for spider were doomed no matter what. Yeah, some of their deals will probably show up and some of their contributions might matter but the overall goal, helping spider stand as a Great clan in the empire and carve a place for itself... that one has not a single sign that it was ever going to matter with this fiction. Its a valid complaint, I still think this particular fiction should never have been printed in the starter set.
I'm not even going to TALK about the promises that our clan status is not threatened and to enjoy the ride by members of AEG's staff.
Shiabatsu turning on us could have been really fascinating and interesting, but with Seiken its pretty predictable. He hates us, we hate him, something happens and BOOM onix edition. Shiabatsu probably would have been more subtle and fascinating, maybe one day in the future we could know how it would have happened but Seiken is a little
Not that we are saying anything bad against you guys. You are jumping in too late to be a part of that design process. If you can make it awesome I cant wait to see it, but the writing on the wall is too obvious right now for any talk that Shiabatsu would have been anything but the long run same result, just with a different flavor tied to it.
I''m sure we will see with the next few sets in the CCG which direction Spider is going and how much, or little, our preferences actually mattered.