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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:02 pm 
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Crane Envoy to The Spider
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TheItsyBitsySpider wrote:
It's rokugan vs Jigoku, we are Jigoku now, people need to except that these kinds of things will be the norm.

Except the 20-something percent of Spider players that voted Walk.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:09 pm 
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kakita_shiro wrote:
TheItsyBitsySpider wrote:
It's rokugan vs Jigoku, we are Jigoku now, people need to except that these kinds of things will be the norm.

Except the 20-something percent of Spider players that voted Walk.


They need to accept it too! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:51 pm 
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Sparks wrote:
kakita_shiro wrote:
TheItsyBitsySpider wrote:
It's rokugan vs Jigoku, we are Jigoku now, people need to except that these kinds of things will be the norm.

Except the 20-something percent of Spider players that voted Walk.


They need to accept it too! :lol:


This whole exchange right here makes me feel better about my Phoenix loyalty. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:57 am 
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Time to bring a real spider deck with tainted Kanpeki as a champion and Yajinden sensei, y'know for the lulz.


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:58 am 
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Sparks wrote:
kakita_shiro wrote:
TheItsyBitsySpider wrote:
It's rokugan vs Jigoku, we are Jigoku now, people need to except that these kinds of things will be the norm.

Except the 20-something percent of Spider players that voted Walk.

They need to accept it too! :lol:

I would include Gunichi's quote in here too, but there seems to be a quote tunnel limit.

What Sparks says is true, isn't it? The Spider are placed as being aligned with Jigoku. The other Clans are placed as opposed to Jigoku.

If you are a Spider player, and want to side with Rokugan, you have limited options for this challenge booth. If you are a non-Spider player, and you want to side with Jigoku, you have basically no option for this challenge booth.

In the long run, if you are a Spider player, you are going to have to come to terms with your Clan supporting Jigoku. If you are not a Spider player, you are probably going to have to come to terms with your Clan opposing Jigoku. You can try to win contests and influence the other members of your Clan to boost support for your position. But ultimately you are in a minority, and it is unlikely that your Clan as a whole is going to be doing what you want. You can either accept that or choose to be consumed by fanrage, beat your head against the wall, and be miserable.


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:35 am 
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If I were to be paired up with a Tainted Spider player on Team Good Guy, I would get up and leave.


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:38 am 
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MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
If I were to be paired up with a Tainted Spider player on Team Good Guy, I would get up and leave.


And let Jigoku win by default!?!?!?!

That's the spirit!

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:49 am 
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Sparks wrote:
MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
If I were to be paired up with a Tainted Spider player on Team Good Guy, I would get up and leave.


And let Jigoku win by default!?!?!?!

That's the spirit!


Mhhhhhm.... Free scrolls....

*gleefully claps*

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:01 am 
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Because I don't want to sit down to play a game with someone who is actively sabotaging me.


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 12:21 pm 
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MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
Because I don't want to sit down to play a game with someone who is actively sabotaging me.


Nobody is arguing your reasons... only stating the satisfaction of an auto win! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:20 pm 
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MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
Because I don't want to sit down to play a game with someone who is actively sabotaging me.


And if someone sat down with a non-Tainted Spider Clan deck? Would you still get up and walk away?

Because, as it stands, I am bringing a non-Tainted Spider deck to this.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:35 pm 
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sndwurks wrote:
MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
Because I don't want to sit down to play a game with someone who is actively sabotaging me.


And if someone sat down with a non-Tainted Spider Clan deck? Would you still get up and walk away?

Because, as it stands, I am bringing a non-Tainted Spider deck to this.


That would be sabotage, too! ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:05 pm 
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sndwurks wrote:
MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
Because I don't want to sit down to play a game with someone who is actively sabotaging me.


And if someone sat down with a non-Tainted Spider Clan deck? Would you still get up and walk away?

Because, as it stands, I am bringing a non-Tainted Spider deck to this.

I guess dead weight is better than active sabotage.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:22 pm 
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sndwurks wrote:
MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
Because I don't want to sit down to play a game with someone who is actively sabotaging me.


And if someone sat down with a non-Tainted Spider Clan deck? Would you still get up and walk away?

Because, as it stands, I am bringing a non-Tainted Spider deck to this.

I specifically said Tainted Spider. The Shadowlands keyword is bad enough in the scenario that you get it after you get enough Corruption tokwns. It has to be bad news.


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:26 pm 
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MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
I specifically said Tainted Spider. The Shadowlands keyword is bad enough in the scenario that you get it after you get enough Corruption tokwns. It has to be bad news.


Based on theorycraft, the Siege deck needs a means to compete with multiple opponents in Personality count and card draw. They need, literally, a scalable way to match the production of the other players at the table. The Dark Naga deck did this by producing Naga Warriors whenever it Recruited a Personality, and drawing cards whenever their card effect destroyed a Naga Warrior. My personal theory is that the Yogo Junzo's Army deck steals control of Personalities with the Shadowlands trait, and draws a card when it does so in a Battle.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:44 pm 
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Probably. All I'm saying is I don't want to play with someone who is going to make it harder than it has to.


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:57 pm 
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MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
Probably. All I'm saying is I don't want to play with someone who is going to make it harder than it has to.


Oh, but it WILL be harder than it has to be if someone brings in a gimped spider deck without shadowlands peeps! :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:19 am 
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More good news!

I reached out to Bryan Reese through my media contact accounts, and he agreed to let me pilot the Siege deck during the Challenge Booth I had purchased a ticket for. So, it looks like I will be fighting the Evil fight for us during the Thursday, 1 PM Challenge Booth, the first booth for Dark Divination! So I will be able to show up (albeit late) to the Dinner for Villains with some key intel on how to play the Siege deck.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:49 am 
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Sparks wrote:
MirumotoDaisuke wrote:
Probably. All I'm saying is I don't want to play with someone who is going to make it harder than it has to.


Oh, but it WILL be harder than it has to be if someone brings in a gimped spider deck without shadowlands peeps! :lol:



^ This! Better a shadowlands deck that still kicks ass then a susumu deck doing literally NOTHING for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:40 am 
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Disagree. My last word on the topic.


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:48 pm 
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Not sure how Siege game works but i think he probably think that empowering enemy's deck is worst than having 1 less ally. Having a stronger enemy is harder for him to get a win. having a teammate with lousy deck will only hurt that guy's chance in getting a scroll, which increase the chance of him getting the scroll for his own clan.

not representing him but have to try and give myself a reason to not seeing this as "I don't want to play with you because you are tainted spider". which is sad cause tainted spider players are human too :(


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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:04 am 
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Remember, in Siege, every player at the table makes the Siege deck more powerful. Having a dead weight player is not as bad as someone actively sabotaging the game, but it is still fairly bad.

The Susumu Deck's major weakness against the Siege: Clan War deck comes from their relatively low Chi. A Dragon courtier deck would actually be ideal to bring to bear against the Siege: Clan War deck, I suspect. High chi courtiers, 4G Box with a free ring. Since you don't have to meta against the competitive environment, you can focus entirely on running opposed battle cards and even an Enlightenment suite.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 7:29 am 
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Well there IS a rule being used that allows Spider to play, so the idea that it's sabotage isn't there.

As for Susumu, they would be ABYSMALL for this as this set involves attacking into the Junzo deck, not defending.

The Susumu are a combo Honor deck that is solely designed to gain honor through defense, without attacking the deck can make 2-4 honor a turn, which is abysmal...

So it provides no force, no good chi, and no real contribution to the honor counter as a crane military deck can provide as much honor as it.

NOPE NOPE NOPE! NOT HAPPENING!

A spider military deck is just infinitely better as it provides solid force, good actions, and a few stellar power cards like Shadow Emperor and Shiho.

Bottom line... No, Susumu are garbage in that format. THAT is how you sabotage your team as all it does is give Junzo more corruption counters and more abilities with almost no kickback.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:27 am 
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TheItsyBitsySpider wrote:
Well there IS a rule being used that allows Spider to play, so the idea that it's sabotage isn't there.

I strongly suspect that the forces of Yogo Junzo will either get bonuses based on Shadowlands cards in play, or just be able to take over Shadowlands cards so any notion that Spider players participating with Shadowlands cards as participating is probably false. I will update again Thursday after I play it.

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 Post subject: Re: Gencon 2015: the Black Scrolls
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 10:27 am 
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My best guess, is that there may be some rule that says something to the effect of "cards with shadowlands are treated as normal, unless they would gain shadowlands through some game effect." Basically, they have to be double-shadowlands before Junzo can screw with them? *shrug*

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